Is abortion murder or is murder subjective in how we chose to define it?

Question

I think the question is pretty much self explanatory.

Ashley, comparing unborn children to your toenails is at best a far reaching comparison.

jack b, I understand your cynicism but I don't believe it is necessary to the extent you have taken it.

Rai A, your viewpoint at least is a start in the right direction.

edsawyer, I appreciate your honesty but you are right in that we are not in agreement on this one. However you error in the aspect that this is a Christian dilemma. I am not a Christian by a long shot and I am pro-life. There is tremendous diversity within the prolife movement. Check this site out and see for yourself.

http://prolifecommunity.net/main.htm

Tommy, at this point in time it is indeed a womans legal choice to have an abortion or not. That is not in debate. What is in debate is A, is abortion murder, and B, should it be banned. I believe in both not because I am this over controling bozo male but because I love all life and believe it should be treated with respect and compassion. This is also the same reason I am a vegetarian.

daliaadel, I did view your answer from one Islamic perspective. The 40 days part when the soul enters the body seems more religious in its base than scientific. Nobody but God can say when the soul enters the body. I tend to believe all life has a soul thus conception is the moment the soul becomes one with the body. Can I prove this? No, but neither can you prove it is 40 days. I think when it comes to issues such as the life of a human being it is better to be safe than a murderer. This offense and suffering caused by abortion is potentially so grave it warrants such caution.

deckape, you have found interesting questions that my question begs. To answer your question there are different degrees of culpability. I would say the Dr is the most culpable followed most often by the woman who has the abortion, then next any would influenced such a woman to have an abortion such as family, friends, BF, etc. With this said I do believe the judges who created this problem to begin with hold a great share of responsibility. I'd hate to be their karma.

ThatGuy, some treat it as such.

zenbuddha..., I don't necessarily subscribe to the Christian paradigm but even if things do get worse murdering is certainly not going to help make things better.

not_ta_th... _2_say, I like your examples.

piepiepie, yes women are persons too just as I am a person. As a male with a penis one would think I have the right to do with it what I want but I don't do I? My right to do with my penis legals stops at my potential choice to rape someone. In essence our rights stop where anothers begins. So if a woman is a person and a unborn child is a person then it seems entirely logical that abortion should be illegal.

As for abortion being a method of self defense, wow, you have reached a new level of radicalness.

Saint Toad V, I challenge your assumtion that women who do not have access to abortion will simply dump their children in the trash. I'm sure this will happen some of the time. But most of the time seeing the child beyond the cover of the womb awakens the individual to the person who was already their just unveiled. This child via the natural instincts of a mother is most often wanted or else is given up for adoption.

truelaw@s..., hhmmmm being pro-life is murder that's a new one on me. Is the the equalate of you saying, "I know you are but what am I?"

Answer 1

I consider it murder,but i've lost 2 pregnancies naturally,so i'm pretty much opinionated.But i would understand in the case of rape or health issues.

Answer 2

I would say no to both.

Murder is quite objective - it's the intentional taking of a human life against that person's will.

A foetus is not a fully developed human, however, so abortion is not murder.

I mention this because it's true. I suppose if I were looking for the ten points I should have written it 'You're damned straight abortion is murder! It's just a conspiracy by atheists, liberals, feminists and the ACLU to replace the Pledge of Allegiance with the Satanic Hymn! But we will not be moved! We will know the truth when Jesus Christ Almighty (TM) returns!'

But I don't have the stomach for that. So if someone wants 10 points from 'Love of Truth', feel free to cut and paste what I've written there above.

Answer 3

I really don't know what to make of the abortion issue.
I'm a very spiritual person, and have been told by people
with gifts that I have a lot of spiritual knowledge and
understanding.
They say that spirits are lined up in the spirit world. Wanting to
experience what is getting ready to take place on our world.
But I also know that the majority of spirit life we deal with,
exists on lower spiritual levels. And they aren't PERFECT. They
are quite capable of following thier own agendas.
Now, Jesus said, "WOE to those who will have to try and
feed the babies in the last days."
What good would it do a spirit to live right now, and die before
he is 10 years old? I don't know.
All life is sacred. But for the life of me. I don't understand why
anyone would insist that someone live right now. When we
are going to experience things that will make people
faint from fear! And there will be struggle like never before.
Literally brother against brother. Murdering each other over
bare necessities like food!
But it won't last forever my friends.

Answer 4

The Supreme Court of the US says that abortion is not murder. The Bible does not call abortion murder. God uses abortion. Abortion is a natural occurance in nature. All of these sources and the majority of Americans believe that abortion is not murder.
There is no logical argument that can be made to support the notion that abortion is murder. In fact there is no marginal argument that would support abortion as murder.
There are a number of people though that reinforce each other in the fantasy that abortion is murder. These people are to a person, hateful, vindictive, maladjusted individuals. Most of these people have no sane reason to believe as they do and simply make up arguments to support their lack of reasoning.
For example, no where in the Bible does it say that abortion is killing, murder, death or any other term that could support a charge of murder. And God himself uses abortion. So there is no logical argument against abortion that stems from the Bible. I challenge any person to post any verse in the Bible that hints that abortion is murder. There is nothing they can post.
Nature does not consider abortion murder. Abortion is natural in nature and occured prior to modern times and prior to our system of written law. There is no natural reaction that a woman goes through to stop abortion. Abortion is something that women seek out for themselves. It is therefore natural. There is no natural reason to avoid abortion. If a woman knows that there is a problem feeding a certian number of children and finds she is pregnant, it is only natural to want to limit the number of other fetuses so that those who are already born can live. Abortion is natural and is therefore not murder.
On the flip side, pro life is murder. If a person takes the unatural act of limiting the rights of another, then that person is responsible for the death he causes. Today two teen agers laid themselves upon train tracks and allowed themselves to be killed rather than to go back to their foster parents. The system that forces birth rather than allowing abortion would be guilty if this were to occur as a result of a person being denied abortion. So the pro life group is guilty of murder, yet the pro choice group is not.

Answer 5

Abortion is murder, it is infanticide. Fetuscide, if you will. I am fine with this. Abortion is better than the other methods, throughout human history, of disposing of unwanted children. Abortion should remain legal. Roughly the same percentage of women will annually discard of unwanted children, but will no longer have a legal, or sanitary, means by which to accomplish this. These days, a woman who isn't ready to be a mother can go to a clinic and have an abortion performed by a licensed medical professional, with proper sterile tools, in a clean clinical environment. Illegal abortions could be performed by a variety of people, most of whom won't be licensed medical professionals, with tools that might not be sterile or the proper tool, in whatever place can be found to do the deed at. Or the baby is born alive and left to die in a dumpster, on a wooded hill-side, in a body of water, or even more gruesome methods of body disposal. Abortion is murder and it serves a purpose by allowing for the (occasional) natural primate instinct of infanticide.

Answer 6

This is an issue that I find uncomfortable to talk about at best, so here's all I'm going to say. When I went with my wife for her ultrasound when she was pregnant with our daughter, I got to hear my little girl's heartbeat. A beating heart is certainly something I equate with life. If murdering is the taking of a life, then I think the answer to this question is obvious. However, I'm a guy, and it's easy for me to make a statement like that. I'm not necessarily comfortable speaking for women who have become pregnant through traumatic circumstances who may choose not to have their child. That's their choice. Certainly not mine.

Answer 7

For abortion to be murder one would have to not only have to define a embryo/fetus as a person and make abortion illegal but, also to ignore the rights of women especially the right of bodily autonomy. If you choose to ignore this right, my question to you would be, are women persons or simply a unnatural inversion of man?

I think abortion is much more like an act of self defense.

EDIT: If one persons rights stop with another person, where do you decide that the fetus (not person only potential) rights to live off the body of a woman are greater than that of the woman's rights? It's wrong to rape but, it's not wrong to live off anothers organs? If you were in kidney failure could you rightly take any man's spare kidney, simply because he didn't fight you off well enough? Unwanted pregnancy is just like that.

Thinking that the idea that abortion is self defense is radical only shows your ignorance towards women. You obviously know nothing of the physical and emotional trauma of pregnancy and until you show women some respect and learn something instead of ignoring them and their personhood by simply focusing on potential instead of who is here right now, I suggest you refrain from furthering this ridiculous argument.

Answer 8

A drug dealer selling drugs to kids, is it murder, murder is defined by laws and can be changed to suite any event, in the case of abortion who wold be the murder, the Dr. Pregnant woman, the would be father, the law, who? Is it murder to allow people to starve and who wold be guilty, all the leaders of the world and the Pope and all other religious leaders.

Answer 9

abortion is murder, no matter how you look at it. even if you are raped you can give the baby up. hate what God Jehovah hates and love what Jehovah loves. what if your mother aborted you? how can anyone murder a baby that is growing inside of you. I was so proud to have a wonderful baby put into my homes three times. that wonderful gift from Jehovah God

Answer 10

Killing is murder when the intent is for the wrong reason. We kill the enemy during war - that is in defense of our country. We kill an intruder in our home - that is defense. Abortion is murder after the fetus is able to live on its own - usually at 5 months gestation.

Answer 11

in response to not ta th... 2 say (or whatever)

To every question, I answer... if the woman giving birth had not wanted the child, then I would say yes. abort the fetus. if she had wanted the child, then no, do not abort the fetus. it is the woman's choice. it is her body. her choice to do what she will.

call that murder if you want, but i choose choice above an unwanted child.


in response to the questioner: i dont believe abortion is murder. the fetus is not alive, in my opinion.