What is it about Alcoholics Anonymous that fools people into thinking "it works"?

Question

Oh you mean their 5% success rate as documented by the Harvard/Vaillant study?

Oh & Kevin before you expose your ignorance any further I've been published in the AA Grapevine & was a steadfast stepper for years so up yours lol

Answer 1

1. There's the Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy, and the fallacy of Correlation Equalling Causation. If I go to AA and am sober, it must be AA that did it. That's what everybody is telling me. There I am, going to meetings, praying to the higher power, carrying the message, working the steps, and if I'm sober, I assume that these activities caused the sobriety.

2. Because I was totally sober and never slipped, I assumed that everybody else was sober, too. It wasn't until after one of our old timers died that his wife revealed that he'd never been able to stay sober - he'd been lying to the group. There were others like him. Not everybody who slips tells the group. Don't think that people who claim it's working for them are telling you the truth.

3. Whom do I see? I see people at meetings. There we are. I assume AA works. Whom do I NOT see? I don't see the people who show up, get disgusted, and don't come back. They're gone, outta there, and are doing something else, and I don't see them. I don't realize that there are far, far more people who leave than stay. I don't realize that more people sober up WITHOUT a program than with a program. I don't see them.

Why don't I see? It's easy not to. Here I come, saying Hi to my friends, getting a cuppacawfee, socializing with the people I know, listening to the people with Time and focusing on them - and because I am focused on the familiar, I don't really notice that there are people who showed up for a little while and didn't stay. I'm at a meeting. I'm not doing other things with these other people.

I don't realize that for a program or treatment or method to be considered effective, it has to produce results significantly above and beyond the natural rate of spontaneous remission. I don't know that "alcoholism" isn't necessarily fatal, and that 5% of alcoholics per year go into spontaneous remission without any program at all. I don't know that AA's success rate is 3-5%. I don't know that "sobriety" in AA can be attributed to spontaneous remission, and not to anything inherent in the AA program.

4. It's really hard to deal with being lied to. I think we human beans need to be able to trust our environment to a certain extent. We can live with some risk and uncertainty, but we need to be able to believe that certain things are what they say they are. We need to feel safe.

AA is deeply and profoundly dishonest. It's riddled with lies through and through. It's not what it says it is. If I believe I'm going to die without AA, I can't afford to question. I have to believe it works. I have to believe the propaganda. I can't possibly believe that AA could be as false as the AA-bashers say it is. To listen to these people is threatening to my safety. I need to believe that at least this part of my world is secure.

5. ...which leads to fear. I have a disease!! I'm going to die!! If you tell me that AA is lying, you threaten my life!! Underneath all that "Serenity" and upbeat talk there is stark raving terror. If I smile enough and talk serenity enough, I can hide that fear even from myself.

I have to believe that AA works!! We're fooled into thinking "it works" because it's just too terrifying to consider that maybe it doesn't.

6. Nor am I clear on what "works" means.

I know that my car works. I know that my washing machine works. A little closer to the topic, I know that my asthma medicine works. I know that the antibiotic works if I have an infection.

And from there I jump to the conclusion that AA works, even though closer inspection would show something else. "Works" has become fuzzy, and meaning is being lost.

But I can't afford to look closer. I risk jails and institutions and death if I do.

Besides, everybody knows AA works, ipse dixit. It says so itself. It works if you work it. AA claims to be an honest program. If it says so, it must be true.

Uhhh...it is true, isn't it....? Please say it's true! You're threatening my sobriety......easy does it, one day at a time...god grant me the serenity, god grant me the serenity. La la la la, I don't hear you, I don't hear you, I don't see your question, I'm safe, AA works.....

Answer 2

Before you go to AA, there's all the stuff in the media - films and books - where people have drink problems, have unhappy lives, go to AA and come out cured and squeaky clean and living happily ever after.

Then you realise booze is becoming a problem in your life. You decide to try a meeting and see all these happy people who seem to be not drinking and enjoying life so you think there must be something here even if all that talk of booze REALLY makes you want to drink. So you keep coming back even though you're not sure you were as bad as these guys but when you mention you may not be an alcoholic like them, they tell you that if you think you're not an alcoholic you probably are and you realise that you and Toto have left Kansas way behind.

All AA did for me was to make me feel bad about myself. And when I feel bad about myself I drink. AA told me I was powerless over alcohol, so being the suggestable type I drank more than I did before. I'm now having non-12 step alcohol counselling and things have improved a lot.

AA works for some people and that's great for them, but I think it lets down a lot more than it helps.

Answer 3

Well, first off, the question is in the R&S section because AA is nothing more than disquised religion.

AA has infiltrated most institutions and the victim mentality is all over the place. Since it is not a professional organization, it has never done any controlled studies to verify whether it works or not and relies solely on anecdotal evidence. "If it has worked for me, it must work for anyone." "AA has helped millions". Where is the proof in those statements and just because it worked for someone, doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

AA is also so insidious that everyone knows someone that goes/went to AA and if that person has quit drinking, then it must have been because they went to AA. In reality, anyone can quit drinking if they have a desire to quit and are willing to make changes to do so. There is no need for a cult, quack religion to do so.

Answer 4

1) The Big Book and all the religio-cult lies.
2) The **action** of going to meetings , other "actions".
3) The caring, loving, directive god of aa, the steps, pseudo-friends, belonging, learning the robot-speak lingo, and related **actions**: thinking these keep them sober.
4) Stories, myths.
5) Coercion , especially from the government.
6) "Treatment".
7) Little info about failure rates and other approaches to sobriety. AA is silent on this.
8) They simply told me to stop. I did, but always thought it was the holy "PROGRAM" that got me and kept me sober. I met other soberz who had left . They did NOT die "out there" afterall.
9) more.......

Answer 5

I don't think that Alcoholics Anonymous fools people into anything since it is a meeting and usually meetings are incapable of fooling people into feeling things, since they aren't people.

Coming from a family that has had success with AA meetings, I think they work because they give you the support you are needing as you feel like you are losing things you have relied on in life. Not only are you receiving support, but you are receiving support from people that truly understand what you are going through. You can call them at any time and tell them that you are feeling tempted to drink and they will understand and won't judge you or think you are a failure like others might, because they too have been there and have been called those things.

Alcoholic's Anonymous doesn't guarantee success, they just guarantee that they will be there for you incase YOU decide success for yourself.

I think it all comes down to being human. When you are going through change you need love and support and Alcoholics Anonymous is a group of people that gives that to people in need.

Answer 6

The South Park episode where Stan's dad becomes an alcoholic offers more substance than AA ever could.

Answer 7

Well your not being Honest read the Book they tell you right a way if you dont want what they have dont do it if something better works for you thats great if you can drink normally there hats are off to you good luck. that is the truth no one forces anyone to go to AA the conspircicy is IN YOUR HEAD.
IT works because it does work and your statistics are bullshit and your just pissed off and probably got bored with AA because they didnt do things your way, so you took your bat and ball and went home and didnt want to play anymore.
Grow up and leave people alone if it dont work for you great It does work for alot of others and there families. Grow up and let people who are adults decide for themselves what works for them considering the results alcoholism and the wreckage it cause 5 % percent is better than any other program even if that statistic is a load of crap. It does not take into acount people like you who leave get pissed at AA then go back after things get worst than they ever thought possible. Good luck with your anger I hope it works for you.

Answer 8

There has been extensive research on recovering from addiction. This research shows that people who attend AA are less likely to relapse. I have been to meetings before and they're not fun; but, neither is alcoholism. The meetings remind us of our vulnerabilities as human beings living a scary, changing, evolving existence. They can help arrange a sponsor too. I am sure that there are other programs out there that work, it's just that this particular approach has been researched and statistically shows success in rehabilitating a mind that needs sedation to function in this crazy world. Along with this email I'm sending hope, and love to you on your path.

Answer 9

My aunt works there, and the first thing she tells people is only 1/20 make it. My aunt was cured through therapy and the AA, the only qualms she had were the very religiously strict most of them were.

Answer 10

Constant brainwashing ?,i've stopped going to sites like lifering ,smart etc cos there are too many steppers lurking and passing on their **** to sick and vulnerable people.