Jesus did not exist, so why do so many relate to it as fact?

Question

This is a two-parter... two very simple questions to which I have yet to hear a good answer... (I'm agnostic)

1 - if Jesus performed so many miracles, then why isn't there a single shred of historical evidence of his life? (and don't answer 'the bible'... see next point)... as far as I'm aware there is absolutely no historical proof of his existence at all, and there ought to be, don't you think, if he was such a powerful figure?

2 - how can you believe the Bible when the gospels were edited about a thousand times and the first ones were written decades after his 'death'? The average lifespan at the time was about 30 years... (the first gospels were written in AD 70).

And a bonus question... the first ever references to Jesus being a physical person and being born to Mary are from Ignatius (a very dodgy character) at about 100-110 AD. 80 years after he 'died'. Explain?

It is ok to 'believe' in Jesus. But for goodness sake don't relate to it as truth or fact.

Answer 1

You make a great point. It always confuses me how some guy could be performing miracles and doing all this amazing stuff, and yet hardly anyone in the world is writing about him. You would think that the historical evidence would be everywhere, but it's not. If you believe he never existed, you can actually make a very convincing argument.

I believe some guy with that name existed, but he didn't walk on water or multiply food or any of that. He was probably just a guy who went around preaching, and over time he started having all these supernatural things attributed to him. Those stories of him have probably been exaggerated and blown out of proportion so far that it's ridiculous.

The below link is really interesting... it's a list of historical references to Jesus, and as you'll see, it's pretty limited.

Edit: Everyone's mentioning the Josephus writing. Does everyone realize that a lot of scholars seriously think that that passage was added later? In other words, that it's not legitimate?

Answer 2

I find it interesting that you will not allow the Bible to answer your question. The Bible is considered a great historical and scientific record. Why were many events in history taught to you over your time in school? Was it not because someone took the time to write it down? How can American or World history be taught if someone did not record the events. The historical data found in the Bible describes people and events and years of documentation that has also been varied by non Biblical scholars. Even the famous Hindu man, Mohandas Gandhi, spoke of the "Sermon on the Mount" and indicated that if the words spoken by Jesus were followed by mankind then everyone would get along and there would be no more hatred. His exact words were, "I love Christ, but despise Christians because they do not live as Christ lived." I have to tell you that if you don't believe that Jesus was a true historical person then what makes you think that King Tut or King Richard the Lion-Hearted or Hitler or Jules Verne ever existed? Then nothing can be proven according to you and your philosophy. A respected historian named Will Durant said this. "That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospels." He was refering to the fact that Jesus must have existed! Ask yourself this: Could a person who never lived have affected human history so remarkably? The reference work "The Historians' History of the World" observed:"The historical result of Jesus' activities was more momentous, even from a strictly secular standpoint, than the deeds of any other character of history. A new era, recognised by the chief civilisations of the world, dates from Jesus' birth." Think about this too. Calendars today are based on the year that Jesus was thought to have been born. "BC" before Christ..."AD" anno Domini (in the year of our Lord) References to Jesus Christ by early secular historians are meager, but some do exist. Cornelius Tacitus, a respected first-century Roman historian, wrote this: "The name Christian is derived from Christ, whom the procurator Pontius Pilate had executed in the reign of Tiberius." Suetonius and Pliny the Younger, other Roman writers of the time, also refered to Christ. In addition, Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish historian, wrote of James, whom he identified as the "brother of Jesus, who was called Christ." The "New Encyclopedia Britannica" thus concludes: "These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries." Essentially, however, all that is known about Jesus was recorded by his first-century followers. Their reports have been preserved in the Gospels- Mark, Matthew. Luke and John.
I do hope you investagate a little further, because there is no hope for mankind unless we do accept the teachings of Jesus. Only through him and his bodily sacrifice can we find hope in a paradise earth which he promised through his kingdom. Now that is worthy of looking into.

Answer 3

Interestingly, historian H. G. Wells described his test for measuring a man’s greatness. Over 50 years ago, he wrote: “The historian’s test of an individual’s greatness is ‘What did he leave to grow? Did he start men to thinking along fresh lines with a vigor that persisted after him?’ By this test,” Wells concluded, “Jesus stands first.” Even Napoléon Bonaparte noted: “Jesus Christ has influenced and commanded His subjects without His visible bodily presence.”

Yet, some have objected that Jesus is not a historical person but a myth. At the other extreme, many have idolized Jesus as God, saying that God came to earth as Jesus. However, basing his conclusions solely on the historical evidence regarding Jesus’ existence as a man, Wells wrote: “It is interesting and significant that a historian, without any theological bias whatever, should find that he cannot portray the progress of humanity honestly without giving a foremost place to a penniless teacher from Nazareth. . . . A historian like myself, who does not even call himself a Christian, finds the picture centering irresistibly around the life and character of this most significant man.”

The respected historian Will Durant reasoned in a similar way, explaining: “That a few simple men [who called themselves Christians] should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospels.”

Thus, you could reason with such a skeptic: Could a mythical character—a person who never really lived—have affected human history so remarkably? The reference work The Historians’ History of the World observed: “The historical result of [Jesus’] activities was more momentous, even from a strictly secular standpoint, than the deeds of any other character of history. A new era, recognised by the chief civilisations of the world, dates from his birth.” Think about it. Even some calendars today are based on the year that Jesus was thought to have been born. “Dates before that year are listed as B.C., or before Christ,” explains The World Book Encyclopedia. “Dates after that year are listed as A.D., or anno Domini (in the year of our Lord).”

Answer 4

You sound like an ignoramus. Lets' put that in perspective:
You say that the first writings of Christ appeared atleast decades after his death(approxiamately 30 - 60 years in which all 4 Gospels were written).
Now, do you believe Buddha or Mohammad existed ?
Because by your inane logic :
(1) First Writings on Mohammad apeared more than 150 years after he died and on Buddha, more than 600 years!
(2) There are no contemporary writings on Buddha or Mohammad from non-Buddhist or non-Muslim sources. And yet you have the temerity to say that Christ does not exist though there are secular writings and lo and behold! Jewish writings on Jesus and his disciples, aimed at preventing Jews from becoming Christians.
(3) Followers of Christ died non-violently for their beliefs, did they die for a myth? They certainly were not suicide killers but died in the colosseum and being torn apart by wild animals.

So even your "brilliantly" applied logic does not work.
Get out of your well and look around with a little more perspective. Just because Jesus had a short ministry of a little more than 3 years does not mean that he wasn't there.

Answer 5

This is just one quote from a Jewish historian who lived in AD 70. There are sources other than the Bible for the existence of the historical Jesus - Tacitus, Tertullian to name a few.

FROM FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS - ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS - SEDITION OF THE JEWS AGAINST PONTIUS PILATE, CONCERNING CHRIST - BOOK 18, CHAPTER 3
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

Answer 6

Sorry, you are just wrong

Josephus a Roman historian notes that Jesus was controversial, was executed and reported to be seen after the execution.

Also Jesus is mentioned by Tacitus and Pliny the Younger.

Jewish scholars, certainly not pro-Jesus, have no doubt that Jesus actually existed.

We have more manuscripts of the Bible than any other ancient literature. We have more documentary evidence of Jesus' existence from NON-CHRISTIAN SOURCES than we do of the existence of Julius Caesar, Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle. Yet, ther is no doubt that these other figures are real.

Your belief is not based on fact but rather your choice not to believe the facts that are available.

Answer 7

There are many historical proofs that Jesus existed, so much so that the Middlie school in my town which isn't a Christian school teachs this as history. The Bible has been editted to many times I agree but I believe it is inspirational and for that reason it will always be in existance. You have to research which translation is the best. As for the life span, many lived longer, Jesus Himself was 33. Why does it bother you that we relate to it as truth unless you have actual proof that it isn't.

Answer 8

It's easy for 'EazyE' to say you have much ignorance, then just leave it at that!!
I have to admit that I have really tried to find proof of this guy Jesus, if I could name some sources outside of the new Testament, I would!
I am an atheist, I don't believe in God so I am not likely to believe that he had a Son, but apart from that just looking at the historical events around the time , we do know there was a group opposed to the Romans, maybe this guy was one of them, but I will follow these answers to see if anyone can shed light over his existence !!
Nah, its easier just to throw in a few quotes from the New Testament isn't it??
How about the Bethlehem census bit? that was a really good fairy tale that has been proved to be a complete crock of sh*t, never was any census! Oh dear where do we go from there??
I know what we can do , just keep saying "Belief Belief, that should cover it!! If not pump out a few more verses and chapters from a holy book!! That should clinch the deal!!
Just read the bit from 'Carol' looks interesting, I'll check that out for sure, at least it was a sensible reply to your question.Why dont you also check it out then you can respond??

Answer 9

there are more documents pertaining to Jesus than any other mortal of the time or befor...by many times over... contact any theology dept. of any university and get the facts... How many "documents" prove the existance of any of the so-called great philosephers of those days?... damn few if any... even latter historical figures do not have all that many surviving original documents to "prove" their existance... just the writings of others second and third and fourth hand...

The Truth of The True Christian Faith is not from any book... it is from a personal promise to the individual from God. The Truth of Salvation.

Answer 10

there have been many people in history that there is no physical proof of but that doesn't mean they never existed. Jesus was alive a long time ago and things are lost. as far as believing the bible well althogh i do believe in god and i believe the Lord Jesus Christ is my personnal savior, i do not believ everything in the bible. it was written by man and by his interputation of Gods word. not to mention all the times it has been re-written by someone else interputation or to suit a certain religion or king at the time. so no the bible is a mish mash of truth and fiction. i cannot exlain the bonus question. but like alot of things in life i cannot explain. like i said i do believe in God but my question is where did God come from? did he just pop into existance? there is a beginning to all things, so what was the beginning to God?