May I ask a question regarding the Old Testament and the New Testament?

Question

At times, we see a dialogue akin to the following:

Atheist Scoffer: What about this Old Testament verse that permits ______ (fill in the blank, slavery, eating shellfish, child sacrifice, etc.)?

Christian Apologetic: We are under the New Covenant. Thus, the rules of the earlier covenant as described in the Old Testament no longer apply.

I understand the reason and logic behind this statement. But it raises the following questions in my mind:

1. Why is the Old Testament in the Christian Bible? It is clearly important source material. But given the Christian faith's focus on salvation through Jesus, would it not more appropriately go with such works as the apochryphal and deutero-canonical books?

2. If one reads and follows solely New Testament scripture and bases his or her actions solely on the New Testament, can he or she obtain salvation? If so, again, why is it part of the Old Testament included in the Christianity's handbook for salvation?

Thank you for your time.

I thank everyone. This question received many thoughful responses. And I plan to study more indepth many of the points raise. Email was mentioned and I am open to receiving emails. Like all of us, I am fairly busy these days, so I tend to let my general correspondence build up and then on Fridays I write my responses before spending the weekend with family.

Sleestack,

Yes, I saw Marshall, Will, and Holly when it first came on television in the mid-1970s. Respectfully, even for it's time, it wasn't that good.

Paradise,

The last time I remember dancing was at cotillion. And I'll be honest, what I remember is stepping on the young lady's shoes. I think we'll pass, but thank you for the offer.

Kingreef,

Thank you! Good words. And yes, when I first wrote the question, I had two examples. Then, because I was taught to use sets of three in my writing (who knows why), I added shellfish. And it no longer worked. Good catch on your part. And again, your response was informative

Answer 1

MBH,
"Atheist Scoffer: What about this Old Testament verse that permits ______ (fill in the blank, slavery, eating shellfish, child sacrifice, etc.)?"
To show you that I am paying attention to what you are asking, I think that you meant 'does not permit,' rather than 'permits.'

"1. Why is the Old Testament in the Christian Bible?"
The Old Testament is a very important part of the Bible. It does several things for the Christian.
1) It lets the Christian know how God looks at certain things. It puts the relationship of God and man in view.
2) It tells the history of the world, and what happened to man to get into the trouble he got in with God.
3) It tells of both the faithful, and the faithless; making it evident that God sees to kinds of people as I mentioned, faithful, and faithless.
4) It sets a precidence; God reacts differently towards those that have responded to Him, and those that do not regard God.
5) It shows the reliability of God. If He says something, He does it. This is fundamental in dealing with God. That's what faith is; trust.
6) It shows mans tendency of screwing up. Even the faithful are caught in terrible sins. They tend to create their own problems, AND then they convince themselves that it's okay. That's when God steps in and shows how deviant man is, not only for screwing up, but also for thinking that they were doing right. The veil of rationalization gets destroyed in those times, and God shows once again; He doesn't forget His own word.
7) It shows that God sides with the faithful. This is only because The faithful had sided with Him.
8) God picks people. He doesn't have to give a reason why He picks a certain person or people, but sometimes He does. And typically the message is that He can get anything done, He likes to use people to get His message across.
9) The LAW. The Law, as it is explained in the New Testament by Paul, was a strict unbending schoolmaster. You were either doing right by keeping it, or you did wrong and needed to make sacrifices to atone.
10) The Types and Shadows, and the Prophecies of Christ. This also falls into the trust that believers can have in God. The tabernacle, even Noah's Ark, Moses, the Ark of the Covenant, Jacob's Pillar, The serpent on the pole, all pointed to Jesus Christ. Probably the most important part of the Old Testament.

I could actually go on. These reasons are not meant to be exhaustive, but they are an unprofessional attempt at answering your question. I hope that they helped you to understand, I wouldn't feel like I had what I needed if I was only stuck with a New Testament.

"But given the Christian faith's focus on salvation through Jesus, would it not more appropriately go with such works as the apochryphal and deutero-canonical books?"
I haven't found any Apocryphal or Deuterocanonical books that do what the Old Testament does. Jubilees fell short, and Jasher did as well. Enoch is great but it does not replace the prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, etc. Tobit was an interesting read, and Judith is interesting, though riddled with historical inconsistencies.
I take these writings as interesting, and especially the Apocrypha, because something that has the name 'Hidden' strikes me personally as 'Necessary' for the End Times.

"2. If one reads and follows solely New Testament scripture and bases his or her actions solely on the New Testament, can he or she obtain salvation?"
Without a doubt. But as soon as deeper understanding is sought, it must be used to understand why Jesus did what He did. And why the Pharisees were stuck on the Law. And so many other things.

"If so, again, why is it part of the Old Testament included in the Christianity's handbook for salvation?"
All those things I lined out above are there to inspire FAITH. That is; TRUST in God, because He does not lie. He knows as any parent would, that He can't expect perfection for His children, but He can expect His children to trust Him. The Old Testament shows us Jesus. It's difficult for many to see. But He's in there. All over the place.

Thank you for reading my post.

Answer 2

Thank you for the intelligent question. I hope my answer can do it justice.

Jesus was the fulfillment of many Old Testament prophesies, and dealt with the people of the day still under the Old Law. It would be very hard to understand a lot of the New Testament without knowing the Old Laws and history it spoke of. It is easier to understand the New Covenant God made with man through Jesus if you know what the Old Covenant was about. The idea that if you don't know where you've been, how can you really know where you're going.

I've never heard the New Testament referred to as "Christianity's handbook for salvation". I do know that many people look to the New Testament as a rule book very much like the Old Law. Personally, I don't see it that way. The words of the New Testament were meant to bring us to a personal relationship with God, not put us under another set of rules.

Answer 3

This is a very good question.
When atheists and others who are not believers ask such questions they are not looking for an answer! They simply want to rile the Christian!
Christians who do not know any better give the old clique answer about being under a new covenant.

The Old Testament as well as the New Testament are needed for a Christian to understand their faith. Right from the beginning Jesus is promised and He is found in the Old Testament. God promised a Messiah and the New Testament fulfills that promise through Jesus!
The Whole Bible is important not just the New Testament!

Answer 4

According to the OT there isn't a NT....yet (I don't believe that there ever will be) Here, we can look at Jeremiah 31 and know for sure that the NT is not in effect, afterall, people are still "teaching" others to know the Lord....

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to [d] them, [e] "
declares the LORD.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."

I'd like to know how the New Covenant went into effect when Judah nor Israel has accepted it yet. If you read all of Jeremiah 31 the rest of the chapter said that God will not ever abandon Israel and then gives a bunch of "if's". Nowhere in the entire OT does it say that if Israel declines the covenant that the gentiles have dibs.

Despite the fact that there are over 30,000 christian sects, and Jews are still teaching each other about God, pretty much tells me that there is absolutely NO WAY that there could possibly be a NT. Of course, I'm sure the believers will use mental gymnastics for explaining that this scripture doesn't "really" mean what it clearly says that it means.

Answer 5

the old testament (a word meaning you bet your testicles I'm right!) and the new testament are compilations of several books done by several authors. Some events were tales handed down orally for generation after generation trying to explain the world and our relationship with the Lord. Some events were merely recorded, and not taken to mean that the Lord caused this to happen, but more of a lesson of what happens when we fall away from the Lord and be rebellious. PErsonally, I think the New Testament fulfills and compliments and gives fuller meaning to the Old Testament. If you read the analogies, it makes absolute sense. Reading the NT is like looking into a cut diamond, while the OT is like looking into a rough. A flaw just makes it all the more intriguing

Answer 6

The story is more complex than first meets the eyes.

Consider Matthew 5: 17-18?

Don't think that I came to set aside the Law or the prophets. I didn't come to set them aside but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, till heaven and earth pass away, not an i or the dot of an i of the Law will pass away till everything is done.

So it wold seem that Jesus himself would not have accepted the idea the Old Testament was null and void. Quite the contrary, he was there to confirm it. The prophecies mentioned in St Mathews and St Paul's Epistles concerning the birth of Jesus also link the Old and New Testaments.

But the basic theological idea behind Christianity is that Jesus, being perfectly innocent in all manners, gave his life onto man (as God) - in order that sins may be forgiven, so that men no longer had to make these sacrifices themselves.

To me, it really begs the following question: Why is the Judeo-Christian God a God of sacrifices? What utility does repentance have to a Supreme Being?

Answer 7

The only way to obtain salvation is by accepting Jesus as his(her)savior. John 3:16. Once a person is saved,they still need to try a live a Godly life. Follow the 10 commandments Ect. Also some of the old testament is prophecy(still to happen). I think the old and new testament both apply.

Answer 8

the bible is a book that shows how god has related with man and how man has constantly disobeyed god throughout the ages. the old testament is primarily written for the nation israel as they were the chosen people of god and that there were times when god used the nation israel as a tool to judge the sins of a nation. a holy and pure god cannot stand sin in his presence and will always judge sin. that is why he sent jesus christ to pay the price for mens sins so that all who believe will be redeemed to god. when jesus came the first believers were the jews and they had the opportunity to accept christ in which many did which made the first church but many didnt - judaist. Now we follow the new testament for the believer today because jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law and the prophecies of the old testament and made a new way.

Answer 9

The Old Testament forms a foundation and context for the New Testament.
Jesus met two disciples on the road to Emmaus after His resurrection. Though they did not recognize Him, He taught them the scriptures (Old Testament) that pertained to Messiah.
The prophecies of the Old regarding Messiah are fulfilled in the New.
For example, many Jews come to a knowledge of Christ as Messiah by studying the Old Testament.
The Apostles in the first century church had only the Old Testament to work with until Paul's letters became widely dispersed.

The Law that was done away with was the Levitical Law. primarily. 613 ordinances that worked against mankind. Jesus reduced the Ten Commandments into the Two Great Commandments of the New Testament.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Answer 10

Okay, here's my take on this and I'm definitely no expert on the Bible. I still believe that there are certain things that are good to know and can help me in my walk with God.

But what is no longer applicable is the Old Testament Laws (such as sacrificing a bull or forcing a woman into a marriage) that were replaced by the New Covenant (Jesus).

So, do I still look at the Old Testament. Yes.