I don't get the "Trinity" in the form that Modern Christianity teaches it.?

Question

Could somone please explain it to me?

Thing's i have a problem with:
-Gen 1:26
-Was Jesus with God durring the creation? Was Jesus God durring the Creation? Did Jesus create or did the Father create the world.
-Did Jesus pray to himself?
-Jesus's Baptisim... Why all the trickery if Jesus was the Father as well as the Holy Spirit?
-Stephen seeing Jesus on the Right hand of God
-When Jesus was born, and couldn't talk, couldn't walk,etc... was he still all powerful?

I just don't get it... it's all very vauge to me. Can somone please explain it to me in a way that it will make sense?

Answer 1

No one gets it, not even Christians. Some Christians believe in one god and others believe in three.

‘Christ according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the holy Ghost the third. Each of these three persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded form the Father and Son, but was an equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity.’

- Col. Robert G. Ingersoll

Answer 2

here are some additional scripture that might help.
Mt 28:19 where Christ tells to go forth to all nations baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
another favorite is when a priest ends mass and quotes 2 Cor 13:14 The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Love of God and the communion/fellowship of the Holy Ghost be with yo all. 1 John 5:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

someone once explained it here as the clover - three leaves.... another mentioned water - it's water, ice, steam -same thing just in a different form.

Answer 3

Why I can’t believe in the royal we, idea to Genesis 1:26 and 3:22,

If Jehovah talked with the royal we or us, etc, why did He only do it only 4-5 times.

Why didn’t He or doesn’t He continue to do to so through out the bible.

Why didn’t He use the royal we at Gen. 1:29, 30 only 3 verses later, or Gen. 2:18, Gen. 3:11, 15
and through out the rest of the bible? Why at Isa. 6:8, does Jehovah say “Whom shall I send”?

Job 38:4-7 shows that the angels were existing at the creation of man, so Jehovah wasn’t alone and had many spirit creatures to talk to.

Instead, which sounds more real and truthful, that Jehovah was talking to someone who is His Master Worker, His Firstborn Son, His Faithful Witness, who is His image, His exact representation, OR He was talking to Himself. (Prov. 8:30; Heb. 1:3; Col 1:15)

Bible scholar Donald E. Gowan said “There is no support in the O[ld] T[estament] for most of the proposed explanations: the royal ‘we,’ the deliberative ‘we,’ the plural of fullness, or an indication of a plurality of persons in the Godhead.

Why does the word Elohim according to Strong’s Cyclopaedia, when it applies to Jehovah means Supreme God, not Gods? Even when this word is applied to Moses (Ex. 4:16 & 7:1) it doesn’t mean that there are 3 Moses, it doesn’t even mean there are 2 Moses.

(Side point when Jesus said if you see me you see the Father, it is because he is the image of God, the exact representation of his Father. When you see an image in a mirror you are seeing a representation, not the actual person. Col 1:15)

(Side point, According to my college dictionary, begotten means “to be born”, to be born means “brought into life or being” when was Jesus brought into life, when he came to life as a baby? No, as Jehovah’s Firstborn of creation Col. 1:15; Rev 3:14)

Answer 4

God is one entity and is more massive than can fit in any one place so the reference is to the trinity that helps in identifying aspects of God.

God the Father: better translated as God the creator. This is the aspect of God as originator and creator of all things. The word father is used specifically in relation to Jesus since Jesus was born from Mary God's role would then be father. Aside, God is neither Male nor Female and is Both so genderizing God is a human thing. Anchient Hebrew seldom relates a gender to God and the few times it does are even between male and female.

God the Son: This specifically refers to the aspect of God that was incarnate(human form) as the person known as Jesus.

God the Holy Ghost: Also known as the Holy Spirit is the portion of God that exists all around us on earth. Possibly in space as well but all references to the Holy Spirit are earthly so we do not know to what area the Holy Spirit covers.

There are many other names and aspects of God found in Hebrew scriptures but The trinity reference is important to Christians because it references the three major functions of God in earthly life; Creator, Savior(forgiver) and sustainer.

Answer 5

Only God knows if Jesus was with God during creation.
God created the World.
Jesus prayed to God.
Jesus was baptised as an example to us.
The bible says that Jesus will be on the right hand of the father.
Jesus was all man but still the all powerful son of God while on Earth.

Answer 6

It is good that you question the doctrine of the Trinity. Not even theologians who profess this doctrine claim to understand it. In fact, even some of those who invented the theory claim not to understand it. What does that say to you?

In my answer I'll let God answer your questions, from the Words of the Bible:

<>"Was Jesus with God during the creation? Was Jesus God during the Creation? Did Jesus create or did the Father create the world[?]"

Colossians 1:16-17 -- "For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

John 1:1-3 -- "In the beginning was the Word [Jesus - see vs. 14], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."

As you can see, the being who became Jesus was the one who created everything; but it was a collaborative effort. God (who was to become the Father) gave the Word ( who was to become Jesus) a command and he performed it.

<>"Did Jesus pray to himself?"

No, he prayed to God the Father.

<>"Jesus's Baptism... Why all the trickery if Jesus was the Father as well as the Holy Spirit?"

I don't understand what you mean by "trickery". But if you examine the Scripture from the point of view that Jesus was NOT the Father and the holy spirit, you may unravel this question yourself.

<>"Stephen seeing Jesus on the Right hand of God"

As Jesus prayed to the Father, "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." He also gave this challenge to those who were beginning to doubt him: "What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?" (John 6:62). From these we see that the Word/Jesus has always (metaphorically) occupied the seat at the right hand of God the Father ("where he was before").

<>"When Jesus was born, and couldn't talk, couldn't walk, etc... was he still all powerful?"

Philippians 2:5-7 -- "...Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men..." (ASV)

When "the Word became flesh" and became a man he gave up his godly power ("emptied himself"). All the miracles that he did, God the Father did; Jesus attested thus:
John 5:30 - "I can of myself do nothing..."
John 14:10 - "...but the Father abiding in me doeth his works."

<>"Gen 1:26"
"And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:..."
In the Old Testament, the word from which 'God' is translated, is 'Elohim'. It is the plural of 'El', which means 'strong or mighty one'. Thus, God has always revealed that he was more than one being, the 'mighty ones'.

You probably are asking, how then does he say that he is one? And the answer to that good question is that there are two words in the OT that are translated 'one'. One word means 'one in number', the other means 'one in unity'. When God describes himself as being one, it is the word that means 'one in unity' that he uses.

It is interesting to note that, though 'Elohim' is used for 'God' in the OT, when Jesus cried out to him on the cross (Mark 15:34), he used the singular form, 'Eloi'. This indicating that there were no longer two beings in heaven to be addressed as God.

Hope this helps. Continue to study; continue to question. "Ask, and it shall be given you."

Answer 7

"In the begining was the word and the word was with God".
Jesus is the word of God. The word has always existed, but only God has always existed. So Jesus is God. The Word was with God, so Jesus is seperate from God. It's like the other guy said -- The Father , The Son, The Holy Spirit are one, yet seperate, like a clover.

Answer 8

God exists in three distince equally powerful "beings". That is God's nature. Jesus is the only "begotten" son of God, he was not not created, meaning that Jesus has always proceeded from God, just like rays proceed from a star. Everything was created for and through Jesus Christ. God is the "mind", Jesus Christ is the "words" that come forth from the mind. The holy spirit "proceeds" from both the father and son>

Answer 9

>I don't get the "Trinity" in the form
>that Modern Christianity teaches it.?

How about the way that Historic Christianity taught it in the early centuries?

>Could somone please explain it to me?

How about the way it has been explained many times on R&S? It seems you keep repeating the questions which others have answered.

>Thing's i have a problem with:
>-Gen 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
Since God is Spirit and we are not, then that is not the "likeness"; but there is intellect, ability, etc. There are more ways of "likeness" besides the physical or appearance.

>-Was Jesus with God durring the creation?

St. John 1: "In the beginning was the Word (the Logos), and the Word was with God"

>Was Jesus God durring the Creation?

Most certainly. "the Word/Logos/Christ was with God and was God." Before, during, and after the Creation.

As Colossians 1 says: "the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

And in Christ all things consist, hold together, have their being. Ever wonder about the Force that holds the atom together, and the solar systems? The Bible explains it many centuries before scientists even thought about it. In Christ ALL THINGS consist.

>Did Jesus create or did the Father create the world.

By Him (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,

The Father created the the world etal BY the Son .... in the OT, God SPOKE and it was; in the N.T., the Word (Christ) created. Very consistent over the centuries!

>-Did Jesus pray to himself?

No. There is ONE God; He has revealed Himself as existing in Three "Persons". Jesus, the Son, had communion/fellowship with His Father.

>-Jesus's Baptisim... Why all the trickery
>if Jesus was the Father as well as the Holy Spirit?

What trickery? The Son was visible as He was incarnated. The Father and the Holy Spirit normally are not visible to phisical eyes. People saw Jesus coming up out of the water, they heard the voice of the Father from Heaven, and saw the Spirit manifested as descending in the form of a dove.

>-Stephen seeing Jesus on the Right hand of God

Stephen, the first Christian Martyr, as he was being stoned, lifted up His eyes and saw into Heaven, and saw Jesus (Who had been crucified, dead, buried, and raised the third day; then who ascended into heaven and was exalted to the place of highest honour) ... not only did He see Jesus (usually seated 'at the right hand of the Father") but now standing, to receive the first Christian Martyr into Glory.

>-When Jesus was born, and couldn't talk, couldn't walk,etc...
>was he still all powerful?

As the Early Church believed and taught, with His Incarnation Jesus became fully "man" as well as having from all eternity been fully "God". He did not at any time cease to be fully "God"; but in the "Incarnation" He laid aside (for a while) some of His prerogatives of being Deity so that He could be "in all points tested as we are, yet without sin" .

>I just don't get it... it's all very vauge to me.

St. Patrick tried to illustrate it by plucking a shamrock; one shamrock and yet three leaves

Some try to liken the Trinity to water, existing in three states (solid, liquid, and vapour (and yet all having the same substance).

Some say you can not have three and yet only one ... they try to illustrate it as 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 (however, 1 * 1 * 1 does equal 1)..

They key, though, is that we of finite minds can not fully understand the Infinite. That is why in some things such as this, we affirm that THERE IS ONE GOD Who has revealed Himself as existing in three "persons".

>Can somone please explain it to me
>in a way that it will make sense?

It makes more sense than polytheism, etc.!

Answer 10

God is magnificant and complex. If we could fully understand everything about God we would be God. In our finite human form we cannot understand fully - I think there would be somethiing out of place if we did.

As far as your question goes - biblically speaking there is one God and three beings within the Godhead.

Just as an egg is made up of yolk, white and shell in separate parts the whole thing together is still an egg.