Would you like to try an experiment in free will?

Question

It's a really simple experiment:

- Try to choose what to think, before you think it.

In other words, see if you can choose exactly what you are going to think before the thought is actually there in your mind.

You can't do it.

Suppose that in 10 seconds' time, Fred Bloggs is going to decide to get up and make a cup of tea - The thought isn't in his head right now, and he can't decide to start thinking about making a cup of tea before he actually *does* think about it, because he would already have to be thinking about the thought of making a cup of tea in order to decide to think it.

So, it seems clear to me that it's impossible to decide what you're going to think before you're actually thinking it. Thoughts come into your mind unbidden, and you cannot control or choose what your very next thought will be.

If we can't choose our thoughts, then we can't choose our conscious actions either, and if we can't choose our actions then there is no free will.

Thoughts?

Answer 1

Effective as a thought experiment. I prefer to demonstrate the point by relating it to computational theory by pointing out that the brain is Turing-Complete and thus perfectly computable, even if that computation is not feasible.

Ultimately, you're completely right. We make every decision based on the sum total of our experiences, which define our current state, and based on our current inputs. Even if there is some quantum randomness going on, then the computation merely becomes probablistic, but still computable -- unless someone wants to assert that photons have free will when they encounter a 50% reflective surface...

I also notice how many people make the mistake of thinking you're saying they make no choices, or that choice implies free will. "X = 3. If X = 2, do This, else, do That." Which happens? That. The system had a state (X=3), and a choice (If X=2), and based on that state and choice, took an action (That). If this is free will, then computers have free will. I say it was just a choice.

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gjstoryteller: You refute yourself. Fred is working on a big project, and has a thought to make some tea. Because he has a deadline, he chooses not to make the cup of tea.

His state: desiring tea, working on a project, looking at a deadline.
His inputs: whatever caused him to think of tea.
His computation: tea will delay me from finishing on time.
His result: No tea.

This was perfectly computable and therefore not free will.

Answer 2

You are correct. But, you can realize that you are thirsty, which leads you to think that you want a drink. Then you can choose to think harder on what drinks are available, or not to and ignore the impulse. Assuming you want a drink, you think about the different kinds of beverages available, and more thoughts pop up such as that there is tea in the refridgerator. You may then choose to go to the fridge and get it or not to and either choose something else, or decide not to drink.

So although you can't always choose what comes up, you can have a desire or random impulse, which leads to a choice or another impulse.

And if you want to think about something, you can think harder on it and random things will come up in the area of your mind that you are reaching into. When it comes to what you are looking for, it will stop and that is what will stay in your mind until you choose to stop thinking on it.

For example, a test:
Think of a picture for a moment, say... a simple circle. now, I will let you choose, you may either color it red, or blue. (Assume that you like both colors equally and if you don't you may replace the colors with something else to help you consentrate).
I am the impulse that brought it to mind, now what color the circle becomes is up to you. Since you don't ave a special preference of either color, you may choose whatever. But there are no more impulses from here, the choice is yours.

Answer 3

Your premise is interesting and certainly factual but it is flawed in one area. The "result" of the thought itself. Or what you describe as the ability to choose an action consciously.

Your Fred Bloggs suddenly has a thought to get up and make himself a cup of tea. Whether or not he does it is entirely up to him. He may want the cup of tea but at the moment, he's in the middle of an important project that must be finished by a specific deadline. So he has the thought of making himself a cup of tea but decides (his free will) to delay satisfaction until the work is done.

The ability to delay satisfaction is what enables us as a species to live socially. We are able to have thoughts but not act on them. And having been a parent of small children, I cannot tell you how valuable this is. There were times, often, when my children would drive me literally around the bend. I would sometimes have thoughts of beating the crap out of them but I did not. I used other methods of discipline that were equally effective and less destructive to the psyche of the child. So I "willed" myself to act differently than the thought and the accompanying emotion.

The same thing can be said for any thought that we might have. You might want to eat that piece of chocolate cake but knowing that you also want to lose that extra 10 pounds, act differently. You act to your own benefit, and in the case of my children, to the benefit of others.

So. Long story short, your thoughts can certainly be erratic at times but your actions are quite another story. It's in action that free will is exercised. If not, then there is a whole barrel full of psychiatric pathologies that you can choose from that will make you act differently. Consequently, if you are controlled by an illness or a limiting belief system, your free will takes a back seat. But those are the only cases where free will is limited or unable to be exercised.

Answer 4

Your Logic is mind-boggling. Sometimes random thoughts come into our head , that part is true. And your not usually going to think about what your next thought is going to be. Free will is deciding what to do with your thought. U can choose to make coffee instead. If your trying to prove that God controls our minds, then where's your proof. The only times when a person loses control is under hypnosis or under demon possesion and those things are documented.

Answer 5

That's the silliest thing I've ever read. Of course we can choose what we will think about. I can decide right now that I'm going to think about ice cream. Now I start imagining chocolate and vanilla scoops in a big bowl. There's chocolate syrup on top. Some sprinkles... mmmmm!

What's so difficult about that? And what does that have to do with my free agency to keep thinking about ice cream or to cut off the thought and think about something else...or nothing at all? And how is that related to my free agency to act on the thought: to go eat a bowl of ice cream...or to not?

There is free will. It's very easily demonstrable.

Answer 6

I can choose what thoughts I dwell on and in that theses then become the more common thoughts.
I can also control what think on as well.
that is the free will the choose of what stays in your head as well as how you react to the random thoughts that do come.

Answer 7

there was an astronaut who was asked if he had only 60 seconds to fix a life threatening situation what would he do. he replied he would think 50 seconds and act in the 10 seconds left. without the thinking process disaster would strike

Answer 8

While it's true that you can't completely control your thoughts, you can steer them. They are conscious.

For example. The thouht pops into your mind to have a donut. But you can choose, through free will, to eat the donut or not.

So you're wrong to say we can't choose our actions.

Answer 9

But, if a certain tendency to think thoughts of a certain kind is practiced on a daily basis then after a while these thoughts will become habit. In that way we can control our thoughts.

Answer 10

Choosing thoughts and choosing actions are two different things. "Dwelling'" on a thought is yet another. Did I miss something? I'm being serious. Can you clarify? I've gotten your other posts, just not this one.