Clarify the 'faith', 'proof' and 'belief' issue?

Question

Looking through the questions and answers in the religion section, I often see atheists asking about 'proof' of God's existence and Christians often answer by saying something like 'faith' doesn't have to be logical or require 'proof' and that's why it's called faith.

Frankly, I'm a bit puzzled about that. Where does this 'faith' come from? Is it because your parents were Christians so you believe it too?

Answer 1

I'm an atheist. I think a big part of the problem is that these words can be used in different ways which results in ambiguity and confusion. One of my pet peeves is that some atheists seem to equate belief with faith. I think belief should be a fairly neutral term. We can have fairly mundane beliefs that we all agree on. For example, we all believe the sun will rise tomorrow morning. We all believe this to be true, but the only way to prove that it will be true is to wait until tomorrow morning.

Some of our beliefs are completely certain, because they have been "proved" to be true. In mathematics there are formal proofs. In the real world, we consider something to be true when there is overwhelming evidence for the belief. For example, most people would agree that we have proved that the earth is spherical, not flat.

When we talk about faith, we mean beliefs that we have even though there is little or no evidence supporting the belief. Now things get tricky, because we have to agree on what is evidence. For example, many people believe that the Bible is solid evidence of God's existence. However, this is circular reasoning, because the Bible is used to define God. We need outside evidence to test the definition. Some parts of the Bible have been determined to be valid history using archeological evidence, or other historical documents. This other evidence is useful, and lends some weight to the Bible's claims, but overall this other evidence only proves that the Bible was written by men around the historical periods described.

One issue I have with faith is that people with very strong faith not only have little evidence to support their faith, but they will use their faith to deny evidence that they think conflicts with their faith. So, some people deny Evolution is true, despite an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting it, because they think it contradicts the Bible's description of Creation. Note all Bible believers think there is a contradiction, so some Bible believers accept Evolution.

I don't ask believers to prove there is a God. I don't expect to convince believers that this is no God. But I do hope to get them to be more rational about all of the secondary and teriary beliefs they hold. When religious faith in God results in denial of established science, something is horribly wrong. And I'm betting its not the established science.

Answer 2

This is a reasonable question. Atheist are those who do not have spiritual belief. Belief being ones assurance and acknowledgment that something is true. These atheist want physical proof as in something tangible or other spontaneous declaration in other that the collected writings of the Bible that provide witness to the existence of Jesus Christ, salvation, the flood, Moses, all the biblical characters and events. They are saying that there is no logical reason, evidence, proof of this prior existence other than the one book, (Bible) and therefore they cannot find reason to believe in it.
Now faith is something different. Look at it this way, you see a chair. You believe it will hold you if you sit in it. You don't know that it will but you believe it. The space between seeing it and believing it is jumped by faith. You have faith, blind faith without proof that it is true, belief. Testing that belief thru faith you sit in the chair. It holds you, faith and belief reaffirmed. Now with Christian beliefs, the point of sitting is at your death. You through faith have believed and now you die and the action that happens will either reaffirm your belief or it will deny your belief. The problem arises that no one who has proceeded to that actual point of testing that belief (the dead) are coming back to communicate their findings. Therefore, most belief is based on faith alone. I hope I've made it clearer.

Answer 3

Dear Warren Peace,

*(by the name that name is very witty).

I think some of the questions asked by Atheists are difficult for Atheists to accept because it defies logic.

There is absolutely solid: historical, archaeological, experiential, and Biblical evidence for the faith that Christians have. And many Christians are still establishing their foundations in this area. Our parents can influence and show us what real faith looks like - as we examine their lives but it is naive to assume all Christians are just "brain-washed" or believe everything their parents told them (i for example didn't become a Christian until age 18- and my parents are not believers- so out goes that theory).

The difficulty is that there are things described in the Bible that for an atheist doesn't make sense: How can God split the red sea? How can life be sustained in an Ark? But to know the God of the Bible- is to also know that God is able to do things that are beyond our comprehension sometimes. The Bible teaches that our thoughts are not his thoughts. That God is infinitely wiser. How is God able to answer prayer (when so many people pray to Him?) I know that he does- because He constantly answers my prayer and shows Himself to me. So i think how you perceive God plays a big role in what you believe he can and can't do and how he does it.

There are some times when faith doesn't make sense- but the Bible never teaches that it has to. Faith as it applies to believing in God ought to make sense (we should have a solid faith with substance- not just a blind faith). Faith as it applies to different issues doesn't always have to make sense.

Hope that helps,

Nickster

Answer 4

Although both my parents are Christians and I grew up in the church, I spent some time on my own, really studying all different resources as well as the Bible. I had to make the decision on my own, not just follow what my parents believed. I made the decision when Jesus made Himself real to me in a personal way, that is where I get my faith. Fatih comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God!

Answer 5

Unfortunately for Christians they have only the "faith" weapon in their arsenal. When all requests for proof and evidence to back up their belief are exhausted they can only bleat "faith!" and claim that The Bible was "inspired by God" so is therefore the depository of all truths and the answers to every single question you could have are in there "if you have faith" - a nice circular little argument that lets them off the hook...

Answer 6

I believe "faith" comes from a troubling need to have answers to some burning questions that we have no reasonable answers for at this time and might not ever. People can be recruited into a "faith" or they can they can seek one out.

Answer 7

I believe that there is proof for God's existence, and since there is nothing illogical about believing id God, I choose to have faith in Him. If there is anything that would deny the existence of God, maybe I would change my opinion. So far nothing has, and nothing ever will, because God exists.

Answer 8

Faith in the religious context is believing in something that you have now way of testing the validity of the claim.
God is the answer for those that refuse to search for the truth or an answer on their own.

Answer 9

When one believes in somethig without verifyin git and when it proves to be wrong and results in harm to somebody , we simply call him a fool. No exception to this . If eveything is to be accepted on face value what wil happen in this world / Plkease note that the Religions except a rare few protray God as one who demands your praise , your worship , your obeisance and fear for granting your a life in heaven or in the abscxence of any payment to him through these things , he castes you into hell.So God himself is protrayued as a bargainer who would have no mercy if you do not pay him what he wants .he is a party to some implicit contract. he is a business man who would not like to loose his profit .When God jhimself is protrayed like that , what would be the natue of men in the world ? If you just believe in him blindly what will happen to you in your day to day personal relationships?Why the governmentrs which have faith in /god ask for prooof for everything the citizen says he has or has done , in all government documents and in all dealings withthe ?governments . You know peoplewhao have been made by God cannot be believed .Amnd if you believe , y are finished .you know that you can cheat only a person who belives in yu totally and blindly and NEVER CAN YOUCHEAT A PERSON WHO DOES NOTBLINDLY BELIEVE IN YOU BUT DEMANDS PROOF FOR EVERY THING .No one even think of cheateing a person who is known to be careful and demanding proofs for everhthing . people will have a tendency to be more hones in thier dealings with such a person w=evn withur his demanding a proof people woud provied the proofs to him in order to get the transction with him done quickly.
So proof and qestioning have such constructive and an useful role play i every thing.
Religion is mostly built on superstitions miracles that defy nature and this has been adopted by all religons in order to infuse/ createa very strong fear and venerartion to the God in th eminds of the people embracing the religions . the very inventionof god is the product of the mind of an inteeligent crook who wantd to create some mechanism , a strong one that can not be verified by any one at any time , in order to ensure that even in the dead of night and even when no body is watching one should not hav the courage to commit a crime or do soemtning to put somebody to loss or do something tht the society the belong to consider as an offence .
So some superhuman power whichis invisible and which is all powrful to see from above ,erywhere and anywhere had to be invented and all othere made to belive in it . In the ancient times it was not very dfficult to make people beliee anything siome powerful man in the socxiety said .Peoipkle should have been very innocent and could be ms=ade to belive in anythking as a miracle .So blind belief was the foundatioin on which the very concept of religions were developed . So the time of origin of the religions being one when sicence was unknown and had not much developed ,,whatever had ben said in the religions according to the level of knowldege and understanding of the persons who wrote the religious scriptures were mosatly unscientific and contrary to reason . it was nort conducive to the strenght opf the belief if the adherents to the religions are allowed to ask questions . The preiests might not be able to answer all the questions and os a sevre threat of a sin was introduced .So any one asking a question was threatend to have commited a sin punishable by God . So in the process the religons themselves have denigrated the gods by reducing him to thier own level of an ignoramus . The reliogions will looose hold on intelligent poeple and on allpeople in th ecourse of time if they do not mend their ways and grow with the time and continue to ignore science and are afraid of those who ask questions . Their granding inteeligent and honest people as atheists for raising questions is not going to pay in the long run. science .

Answer 10

There is a story of a client at a barber who said God doesn't exist. The client after the barber was finished with him went outside and saw all the men with long hair. He went back into the barbershop and said "Barbers dont exist." The barber said "What do you mean barbers dont exist I am here am I not. Then why all the unkempt people outside the client asked. But they dont come to me the barber replied. So it is with the Lord our God you have to believe that He exists and come to Him.