Battle of beliefs; Who has logic on their side? Christians or non-believers?

Question

I am best described as a freethinker.

It is up to you to decide. However remember, faith is not fact nor is it based on evidence. Faith is needed in fact because their is no evidence. Also, beware of bunching the theory of evolution on non-believers because not all of them believe in it.

Faith: Some religious believers – and many of their critics – often use the term "faith" as the affirmation of belief without an ongoing test of evidence, and even despite evidence apparently to the contrary. Most Jews, Christians and Muslims admit that whatever particular evidence or reason they may possess that their God exists and is deserving of trust, is not ultimately the basis for their believing. Thus, in this sense faith refers to belief beyond evidence or logical arguments, sometimes called "implicit faith". Another form of this kind of faith is fideism: one ought to believe that God exists, but one should not base that belief on any other beliefs; one should, instead, accept it without any reasons at all.


Logic: the task of the logician is the same: to advance an account of valid and fallacious inference to allow one to distinguish logical from flawed arguments.

Answer 1

One can not argue logically when one lacks data. Since all evidence supporting the existence of a god is either anecdotal or conjecture, there is insufficient data to present a logical argument in favor of his/her/its existence.

At the same time, arguing against a god requires not only refuting the anecdotal and unsubstantiated claims (which is not difficult) but also presenting alternative explanations in order to be compelling to the 85+% of the world's religious population. This is not possible because, again, we have insufficient data.

In virtually every religion, acceptance requires faith, not only because of the logical leap that must occur, but because faith is the very opposite of skepticism, a quality eschewed by religious people in general. When it comes to religion, faith is actually considered a character attribute, not a detriment.

What you will come to find is that this question is pointless. I do not mean to sound derogatory, but no matter how many facts, or how compelling a case you make, you can not force people to abandon faith based thinking. Faith is an emotionally self-reinforcing concept, which is what makes it so powerful. The more you doubt, the more faith you must have, and so on. The decision to abandon faith is always an emotional one, never a logical one.

Even if the day were to come when science discovered non-theistic answers to every great question... where did we come from, why are we here, what happens when we die... there would still be a large majority of people who would reject the facts, and cling to a god concept if for no other reason than because it's COMFORTING. Even though most adults, when offered reasonable explanations for things will abandon fantasy thinking, many people need to *feel* that they are being "watched over", "loved", "directed", and "protected" by a great, omniscient being in the sky. It's probably a combination/consequence of innate fear, and being conditioned through childhood by parents, teachers, clergy, etc. This is where the wonderful defense mechanism called DENIAL comes into play. (It is of interest to note that by all recorded accounts, feral children do not believe in, nor are they capable of being taught, the concept of god.)

Your question has been asked by the brightest of minds for thousands of years, so don't feel bad if you don't get any revelatory answers here on Yahoo.

Answer 2

I think there is a good deal of logic, enough to support either side comfortably. However, this is one little nugget of logic on the believer side that I like:


1. The universe has not existed.
2. There was a point when the universe came to be.
3. According to physical law, everything that comes to be must have a cause.
4. The cause must be outside the universe, then.

So there is something outside this universe, and it can cause an entire universe to come to exist. Now, because we have determined that time and space are the universe and are connected (thanks, Einstein) we know that whatever made the universe was outside of time and space, because it created it.
We can determine the following about the 'cause':

- It is nonspatial
- It is nontemporal
- It is powerful (look at the universe)
- It is intelligent (v.s.)
- It is personal: this cause created a universe rather than leaving nothing

This is a strong argument for a monotheistic god.

Answer 3

Just a couple of things here. First the Bible says "there is a way that seems right unto man but the end of it is death. - That is logic - it seems right So we reject the logical because we don't want death for eternity.
Second Faith is not based on evidence as you sated, but he Bible says faith is the evidence. If you have faith which is given to you by God that is the evidence of the truth of what you believe. Hebrews 11:1 - "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Answer 4

having faith is a temporary condition. It is only needed until the instant you believe. It is like fire. You see it the first time people tell you it is hot. They show you how it works chemically and you understand and have faith in the information you receive but if you stick your hand in then it is no longer faith. Unfortunately you can not get burned by evolution so that takes a forever kind of faith. Knowers have been burned. Note this condition may be different than being a believer. Knowers are all believers but not all believers are knowers.

Answer 5

I agree with your thoughts - everyone should decide for themselves. I've found that logic doesn't go any further than faith, once you pass that line it's up to you to look inside yourself and see what you've got crawling around. Then, a healthy dose of self acceptance is good for you. After that, it's easy to feel free and confident in the reality that you now realize you've created for yourself, because that's all you have, and you can make it whatever you want it to be. Logic and faith are just different anlges from which you can percieve the truth. The trick is to look at it head on.

Answer 6

Both are illogical in their own ways.

Christians are illogical for religiously following a book that has been altered by men throughout the centuries. There were all sorts of rules and regulations put into effect long after the time of Jesus' passing. This was done mainly to conquer other (pagan) cultures, either by annhilation or by absorption of their beliefs (think of the connections between Yule and Christmas).

Non-believers are illogical for wanting to put Divine being(s) into a small box of human logic. If something could be defined by the logic of humans as greater than human but still logically possible, that something could not be divine; to be divine, it has to be a being BEYOND human comprehension. It has to be able to live in ways indescribable to humans or any other physical manifestations of life here upon the earth.

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Answer 7

“Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” (Heb. 11:1) True faith is not credulity, that is, a readiness to believe something without sound evidence or just because a person wants it to be so. Genuine faith requires basic or fundamental knowledge, acquaintance with evidence, as well as heartfelt appreciation of what that evidence indicates. Thus, although it is impossible to have real faith without accurate knowledge, the Bible says that it is “with the heart” that one exercises faith.—Rom. 10:10.

Rom. 10:17: “Faith follows the thing heard.” (Compare Acts 17:11, 12; John 4:39-42; 2 Chronicles 9:5-8. A person must first find out what the Bible says, and he will strengthen his conviction if he examines it carefully so as to be convinced of its reliability.)

Rom. 10:10: “With the heart one exercises faith.” (By meditating on godly things to build up appreciation for them, a person impresses them on his figurative heart.)

Faith is strengthened when a person acts on God’s promises and then sees the evidence of God’s blessing on what he has done.—See Psalm 106:9-12.

Illustration: Perhaps you have a friend of whom you would say: ‘I trust that man. I can count on him to keep his word; and I know that if I have a problem, he will come to my help.’ It is not likely that you would be saying that about anyone you met for the first time yesterday, is it? He would have to be someone with whom you had long association, someone who had proved his dependability time and again. It is similar with religious faith. To have faith, you need to take time to get to know Jehovah and his way of doing things.

Answer 8

No, girl, that would not work in a debate club. The reason why a lot of Christians try to go door-to-door converting new members and waste their time on "non-believers", and people of other religions by using the bible is because they are really kind of naive. It is more likely that a Christian like myself could have more of an impact on someone like you by my example and charitable works; because, these are things that you can see for yourself and these are things that can help people gain a testimony of faith. (not a book) By the way, I have a question for you, why do atheists seem to think they can convert Christians by using quotes from 19th century German philosophers?

Answer 9

When folks are using science to prove the existence of God, your arguement is a little lacking.

Every liquid there is freezes from the bottom up. Except one. Water. Why is that? So sea life can survive. Lake life. All creatures living in water.

If evolution is equal to survival of the fittest, then why do nursing mothers produce antibodies within hours after their infants have been exposed to a virus.

If evolution is equal to survival of the fittest, then why do mothers of premature babies produce milk with abnormally high protein and nutrients?

Before you start in with the logic over rules faith debate, you might want to look into how science is getting closer and closer to God.

Answer 10

Well, if you ask who has taken courses in logic, the atheists get very sensitive and defensive.
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I know enough about logic to know that to answer your question in the form of an argument is silly, given that you wouldn't accept my premises. Nor I yours. I am more apt to say that knowledge of God is a priori or axiomatic, a basic belief to a foundationalist epistemology.