Fight terrorism with the gloves off?

Question

Suppose the US were to get a small group of street-savy people train them, arm them and give them a lot of money to operate in the Middle East with. This group would bribe people for locations, torture for information, do targetted assassinations on terrorist and insugent leaders, and covert bombings/sabotages of terrorist meetings. Lists of names are produced and given to the Iraqi government. Bodies of the terrorists are left dismembered, hanged, burning and crucified in the streets for all to see. Insurgents are literally killed off in the night by the thousands and put in unmarked mass graves. The families are billed for the bullets.

It isn't long before people are afraid to even mention Osama bin Laden, Al-qaeda or the insurgency in public places. Extremist Muslims start worshipping underground, their leaders are all either in prison or assassinated. There are no public protests, because the people are too afraid to even think.

Does anyone think it would work?

Answer 1

Got this from a friend, worth your time to read.

Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA : A different spin on Iraq war.

This WAR is for REAL!
Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001.
The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut , Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut , Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie , Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran , Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi , Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam , Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden , Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).


2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford.

3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World?
25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).
(see http://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm)

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US , but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.


So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions:

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we are impotent and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq . Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!
Without our support Great Britain will go too. recently I read that there are more mosques in England than churches.

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else?

The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!


Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war!

For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.


And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose.
I think some actually do, I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.
These people are a serious and dangerous liability to the war effort. We must take note of who they are and get them out of office. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United State s , but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.


If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses.
What is happening in Iraq is a good example. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct about the "peaceful Muslims"?
I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now, after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it!
I reiterate:

. A national election is months away.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world. Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!


Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our "leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!

Answer 2

The one thing that the human body finds impossible ,well almost impossable to withstand is torture and all my life ive believed that torture is wrong and it is moraly wrong,but im all for it in use against the so called Islamic terrorists, those people (if they can be called people) go to the utmost extream to cause carnage and kill christians ,non religiois and even muslims too .Death in war can be quite painless to a suicide bomber because it comes so quick they hate to endure lingering pain .
These terrorists would not be satisfed with the "oposing soldiers name rank and serial number and then keeping him in a P.O.W camp. for they torture and then behead and also record on tape the actual beheadings and then show those tapes to the new terrorist recruits.
So as regards fighting the terrorists with the gloves i believe its time to take the gloves off and start landing a few punches and getting results and if a few terrorists die in the process so what sure arnt they in a hurry to see the "promissed land and all those 40 virgins etc etc anyway"

Answer 3

the type of warfare you describe is exactly the policy that will be the undoing of the United States of America.

Other countries are probably looking for just that sort of idiocy to spark an outcry that even the Democrats (not just Republicans) would stop and think for a moment (Venez. Pres Chavez barely caused them to pause). The joy of foreign criticism would soon be replaced by fear of retrobution- something Democrats dont handle well.

While what you say makes a nice fantasy, the United States cannot endorse assassinations.

Answer 4

We would be just as bad as the terrorists we are trying to stop. Remember, as a country, we want to hold ourselves as accountable for bringing justice, not more fear and loathing. We don't need to resort to such tactics to win the war on terrorism, we just need to remind ourselves that we are above being bullies and strike where needed and follow through with any decision's we make.

Answer 5

you won't be able to reason with those assholes. they are murdering mysoginistic sons ofbitches. they are rather murderers, i do no longer care what we call them or what they call themselves or what they suspect in. the fact those arrogantfuckers think of they are in a position to kill innocents because of the fact some sky spook says that's ok for them to accomplish that is extremely handy for them, in that they are in a position to homicide and experience righteous approximately it. i'd have Dr. Phil have a protracted communicate with them, yet they'd probable kill hissass on a similar time as he's ideal in the midst of turning in one in all his Pollyanna pearls of information. Hmmm, consistent with probability there's a use for terrorists in spite of each little thing. ok, sufficient sillyness. i'd stay the hell out of the middle East. bypass away them on my own, they bypass away us on my own. And in the event that they do no longer, then we take them out. Like we toasted the Taliban after 911.

Answer 6

PNAC ( http://www.newamericancentury.org/ ), the Project for the New American Century is a Washington-based think tank created in 1997. They want the United States, by way of economic and military force, to bring the rest of the world under the umbrella of a new socio-economic Pax Americana. The New World order.

Vice President Dick Cheney is a founding member of PNAC, along with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz is the ideological father of the group. Bruce Jackson, a PNAC director, served as a Pentagon official for Ronald Reagan before leaving government service to take a leading position with the weapons manufacturer Lockheed Martin. William Kristol, famed conservative writer for the Weekly Standard, is also a co-founder of the group. The Weekly Standard is owned by Ruppert Murdoch, who also owns international media giant Fox News.

PNAC's ideology can be found in a White Paper produced in September of 2000 entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century."

According to PNAC, America must:
* Reposition PERMANANTLY based forces to Southern Europe, Southeast Asia and the Middle East;
* Modernize U.S. forces, including enhancing our fighter aircraft, submarine and surface fleet capabilities;
* Develop and deploy a global missile defense system, and develop a strategic dominance of space;
* Control the "International Commons" of cyberspace;
* Increase defense spending to a minimum of 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, up from the 3 percent currently spent (which Bush has already done)

When Bush assumed the Presidency, the men who created and nurtured the imperial dreams of PNAC became the men who run the Pentagon, the Defense Department and the White House. On September 11th, when the Towers came down, these men saw their chance to turn their White Papers into substantive policy. On September 20th 2001, Bush released the "National Security Strategy of the United States of America." It is an ideological match to PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" report issued a year earlier. In many places, it uses exactly the same language to describe America's new place in the world.

Most ominously, this PNAC document described four "Core Missions" for the American military. The two central requirements are for American forces to "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars," and to "perform the 'constabulary' duties associated with shaping the security environment in critical regions." In order to bring this plan to fruition, the military must fight these wars one way or the other to establish American dominance for all to see. According to the Washington Post and The Nation, the final slide of this presentation described "Iraq as the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia as the strategic pivot, and Egypt as the prize" in a war that would purportedly be about ridding the world of terrorism. Bush has deployed massive forces into the Mideast region, while simultaneously engaging American forces in the Philippines and playing nuclear chicken with North Korea. The American people, anxiously awaiting some sort of exit plan after America defeats Iraq, will see too late that no exit is planned.

Our government has been financing research with Monsanto and Dupont to genitically alter seeds so they produce plants who's seeds will not germinte. This will force farmers/nations to rebuy seeds each year from whoever controls them.
( http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?c... ) I believe they already have the patent, or are in the process of applying for it. Think of the implications, not only could we bomb the "f" out of you, but starve you too...until you comply.

Terrorism will INCREASE, and the coming wars will take millions of lives, but that is an acceptable sacrifice for them, as the world would be easier to control with a significantly smaller population.

Eventually, there WILL be American dissent; the citizens will attempt to rise up against the government that's been ripped from under us. That was what the "War on Terror" has really been all about: Constitutional changes that empower the Presidency, protect government from the people, and eliminate citizens rights, (Patriot Acts I & II, and last week's "torture" bill).

In preparation for what's to come, our civil rights, liberties, freedoms, guarantees of due process, and protections from unfair treatment by our own government have been severely diminished by the Patriot Acts. Last week's "torture" bill shifted some powers from Congress to the President, further empowering him. Together, both documents VAGUELY redefine "terrorist" to easily implicate ANY American citizen as a "potential terrorist" or "potential enemy combatant" simply by the words MISSING from the document, that would protect us from such. While all this had been loudly pointed out in Congress, the bill was still passed, as is. It is now highly possible that YOU might be the one being tortured, held in military custody, without access to a lawyer or our judicail system, indefinitely.

Consider also, the true role of FEMA, according to the bill that created that agency. In a (very vaguely defined) "national emergency", they take FULL CONTROL of industry, transportation, wages, employment, can relocate populations, enforce forced citizen labor, money, credit, utilities, communication, media...they BECOME our goverment, and cannot be reviewed by Congess for at least 6 months.

PNAC wants American domination and control over every nation on our world. WE will be the cannon fodder. Our nation is quickly becoming militarized, and we no longer have a say in the matter. WE are "acceptable losses" in their game of greed and power.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1912

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty"
Thomas Jefferson

Answer 7

The type of scenario you describe is the only way we're gonna win this war. If we don't fight this thing on their level, which is barbarism, then there's no way on earth we're gonna win it. You can mark my words on this!

Answer 8

Whether it would work or not, the world would see you as the new Nazis