Scriptural basis for the Trinity?

Question

Preface: I am a Christian and I firmly believe in the Trinity and its basis in Scripture. But this is an issue some should consider.

1 John 5:7 in context reads: 7 So we have these three witnesses 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood – and all three agree.

This is a classic prooftext for the Trinity, but verse 7 is dubious. Can anyone explain why?

Answer 1

In the fourth century C.E., in a Latin treatise, an overzealous advocate of Trinitarianism evidently included the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the holy spirit; and these three are one” as if these were a quotation from 1 John 5:7. Later that passage was put right into the text of a Latin Bible manuscript.

As for the interpolations at 1 John 5:7 to support the Trinity and at Acts 13:2 to justify the Mass, these did not change what is truth. And in time the frauds were fully exposed.

The authenticity of First John was never questioned. However, it is to be noted that some older translations have added to chapter 5 the following words at the end of verse 7and the beginning of verse 8: “In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth.” (King James Version) But this text is not found in any of the early Greek manuscripts and has obviously been added to bolster the Trinity doctrine. Most modern translations, both Catholic and Protestant, do not include these words in the main body of the text.

When the 16th-century scholar Erasmus translated his Greek “New Testament,” he appealed to the authority of the Vatican Codex to omit the spurious words from 1 John chapter 5, verses 7 and 8. Erasmus was right, yet as late as 1897 Pope Leo XIII upheld the corrupted Latin text of the Vulgate. Only with the publication of modern Roman Catholic translations has this textual error been acknowledged.

This does not mean that there have not been attempts to change God’s Word. There have been. A notable example is 1 John 5:7. In the King James Version of 1611 it reads: “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” Yet these words do not appear in any of the very early copies of the Bible. They were added by someone who was trying to support the Trinity teaching. Since it is clear that these words are not really part of God’s Word, corrections have been made and the words do not appear in newer Bibles.

So anyone who says that the Bible does not contain the same information as when it was originally written simply does not know the facts. Jehovah God has seen to it that his Word has been protected not only from mistakes copyists made but also from attempts of others to make additions to it. The Bible itself contains God’s promise that his Word would be kept in a pure form for us today.

Answer 2

Well the Spirit is self explanitory, and I would assume the Blood referres to Christs Sacrifice. I'm not sure how Water would equate with God though.
I have heard teachings that the Trinity is represented here on Earth by Family Units of a Father, a Child and a Mother. The Holy Spirit is referred to as The Comforter, this is a Motherly atribute. Therefore all three make up a Holy Eternal Family Unit.

Answer 3

One of the main reasons I believe in the trinity is the several clear statements in the Bible that seem to put the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit together on the same level.[3]

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...." (Matthew 28:19)

"May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." (2 Corinthians 13:14)

"... Chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood...." (1 Peter 1:2)


Of course, there are many places where the Father and the Son appear without the Holy Spirit mentioned, and the Son with the Spirit, etc. But I think these three passages are undeniably distinctive, especially Matthew 28:19. At this point, of course, the word "trinity" hadn't been thought of, but the concept certainly seems to be present in the New Testament. That's unmistakable.

Answer 4

There is none, they dont even agree at the doctrine What is the starting place of the Trinity doctrine? The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the phrase Trinity, nor the specific doctrine as such, looks within the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his fans intend to contradict the Shema within the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:four). . . . The doctrine built regularly over a couple of centuries and by way of many controversies. . . . By the top of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took considerably the kind it has maintained ever considering the fact that.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126. The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formula ‘one God in 3 Persons’ was once now not solidly based, surely now not completely assimilated into Christian lifestyles and its career of religion, earlier to the top of the 4th century. But it's accurately this formula that has first declare to the name the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there were not anything even remotely drawing near any such mentality or point of view.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299. In The Encyclopedia Americana we learn: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was once strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one character]. The avenue which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was once scarcely a immediately one. Fourth century Trinitarianism didn't replicate competently early Christian instructing concerning the character of God; it was once, on the opposite, a deviation from this instructing.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L. According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself simply a rearrangement of older trinities relationship again to previous peoples, looks to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave beginning to the 3 hypostases or divine people taught by way of the Christian church buildings. . . . This Greek thinker’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] perception of the divine trinity . . . will also be observed in the entire historical [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by way of M. Lachâtre, Vol. two, p. 1467. John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of people inside the cohesion of nature is outlined in phrases of ‘character’ and ‘nature’ which might be G[ree]ok philosophical phrases; honestly the phrases don't seem within the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose because the effect of lengthy controversies wherein those phrases and others similar to ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ had been erroneously carried out to God by way of a few theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899

Answer 5

Where in that verse does it say that God is comprised of three co-eternal, co-equal persons? It doesn't. The Trinity is not supported by Scripture. If it is, why would Jesus say at John 14:24 that the "Father is greater than I am."? If the Trinity is true, why does 1 Cor. 11:3 say that "the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God"? Does God have a head? No. Does Christ have a head? Yes. Where in the Bible is Jesus referred to as "God the Son"? It doesn't. Where in the Bible is the holy spirit called "God the Holy Spirit? It doesn't. If Jesus is God, why does John 1:18 say that "no man has seen God at ANY TIME"? Haven't people seen Jesus? One last question? If the Father is God and Jesus is God and the holy spirit is God, why is the godhead called Jesus when he is only PART of the godhead? Simply put, the Trinity is not found in the Bible.

Answer 6

That is because the people make the bible you read are liars and theifs.

Read the King James Version:


1 John 5:7 (King James Version)

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


The verse your look at is actually read as such:

1 John 5:8 (King James Version)

8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Both compliment each other. There are three distinct personalities in one god. The second verse I am talk about is talking about the human make-up.

Answer 7

The New Testament is full of verses about the Trinity. Jesus proved He was God time and time again, by doing things only God could do, including raising the dead, forgiving sins, and allowing Thomas to worship Him, saying "My Lord and my God". Jesus constantly talked about both His Father in heaven and the Holy Spirit, referring to both of them as "He", thereby indicating that they are both Persons. At the baptism of Jesus, all three divive Persons were present, acting independently. God the Son standing in the water with John, as God the Father spoke audibly from heaven, as God the Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove. How could anyone read the Bible and not notice the Trinity?

Answer 8

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

I see nothing dugious in v7...that is The Trinity.... Jesus is the word... read John 1:1


if you would like to read my pov on The Trinity you may at:

http://pages.zdnet.com/mikevanauken/outreach/id36.html

All honest seekers welcome

Answer 9

Hi Pudding,

I'm a Christian who also believes in the Trinity. I'm no theologian or seminary student though. I have found a website that seems to help me understand it a little better. Would this website link help you as you study more about the Trinity? It is:

http://www.free-gifts.com/The_Trinity.htm

Take care, and if you learn a lot more, come back and help us too! Thank you Pudding.

Answer 10

We are inwardly and outwardly defiled; inwardly, by the power and pollution of sin in our nature. For our cleansing there is in and by Christ Jesus, the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost. Some think that the two sacraments are here meant: baptism with water, as the outward sign of regeneration, and purifying from the pollution of sin by the Holy Spirit; and the Lord’s supper, as the outward sign of the shedding Christ’s blood, and the receiving him by faith for pardon and justification. Both these ways of cleansing were represented in the old ceremonial sacrifices and cleansings. This water and blood include all that is necessary to our salvation. By the water, our souls are washed and purified for heaven and the habitation of saints in light. By the blood, we are justified, reconciled, and presented righteous to God. By the blood, the curse of the law being satisfied, the purifying Spirit is obtained for the internal cleansing of our natures. The water, as well as the blood, came out of the side of the sacrificed Redeemer. He loved the church, and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word; that he might present it to himself a glorious church, Ephesians 5:25-27. This was done in and by the Spirit of God, according to the Saviour’s declaration. He is the Spirit of God, and cannot lie. Three had borne witness to these doctrines concerning the person and the salvation of Christ. The Father, repeatedly, by a voice from heaven declared that Jesus was his beloved Son. The Word declared that He and the Father were One, and that whoever had seen him had seen the Father. And the Holy Ghost, who descended from heaven and rested on Christ at his baptism; who had borne witness to Him by all the prophets; and gave testimony to his resurrection and mediatorial office, by the gift of miraculous powers to the apostles. But whether this passage be cited or not, the doctrine of the Trinity in Unity stands equally firm and certain. To the doctrine taught by the apostles, respecting the person and salvation of Christ, there were three testimonies. 1. The Holy Spirit. We come into the world with a corrupt, carnal disposition, which is enmity to God. This being done away by the regeneration and new-creating of souls by the Holy Spirit, is a testimony to the Saviour. 2. The water: this sets forth the Saviour’s purity and purifying power. The actual and active purity and holiness of his disciples are represented by baptism. 3. The blood which he shed: and this was our ransom, this testifies for Jesus Christ; it sealed up and finished the sacrifices of the Old Testament. The benefits procured by his blood, prove that he is the Saviour of the world. No wonder if he that rejects this evidence is judged a blasphemer of the Spirit of God. These three witnesses are for one and the same purpose; they agree in one and the same thing.

Speaking for myself, I believe there are much stronger scriptual evidence that authoritatively goes to the heart of your question.

Starting from the definition of the "Trinity" being "The doctrine that there is one and only one true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three eternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance (nature) but distinct in subsistence (person)."

1.) One God (Deut. 6:4, I Cor. 8:6) [Note: Jen. 1:26 refers either to the Trinity or a plural of Majesty. John 10:34-35 refers to human judges as "gods" in quoting Ps. 82.] 2.) Diety of the Father (This is accepted by everyone so it is a given.] 3.) Diety of the Holy Spirt a.) Diety (Acts 5:3-4, II Cor. 3:16-18) b.) Personality (Intellect-Rom. 8:27, I Cor. 2:11; Emotion-Eph 4:30, Will-I Cor. 12:11) c.) Passages where all three Persons of the Trinity are used: I. Matt. 28:19 "in the name..." refers to all three Persons of the Trinity and it ("name") is SINGULAR! This shows all three Persons participate in God's name and are there-fore God. II. I Cor. 12:4-6 III. II Cor 12:14

Proof of the Diety of Christ can be found a.) John 1:1 (this is an excellent example of Colwell's rule of Greek) kai Theos ev ho logos (=Greek transliteration) (and God was the Word) = litereral English translation.

The reason why this passage is of so import that probably since the 1800's or so the passage has been challenged, sometimes successfuly, because some Christians do not have the ammunition to answer. Colwell's rule states "a noun can be definite without the article ("the") if it precedes the verb. [At this point it might be good to use the assets of most major universities througout the world...and don't forget Greece!). In John 1:1 this rule of Greek gramer refers tot he word "God" which is definit (not "a God") without the article because it precedes the verb.

Also, good text that may help are Phil. 2:6 (Jesus existed in the form (morphe) of God (e.g., to be in a form of a dog) and no one in the Bible is said to exist in a form of God except God. Also, Titus 2:13 calles Jesus "our great God and Savior". (Note 1:3, 2:10, and 3:4 which all refer to "God our Savior" and prohitit the splitting up of the phrase in 2:13.
Lastly, John 5:18, 10:30, 20:28 (good), Rom. 9:5, Acts 20:28, Heb. 1:8--all these passages say that Jesus = God.

I'm sorry that this has been so long, that was my intention but one thing leads to another.

Yours in Christ

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