only for those TRULY interested: Does this help u see that God is real (read the whole page before answering)?

Question

http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c038.html

Answer 1

Quite an article. Nothing like using quotes out of context to advance an argument, but lets put that aside.

I am truly interested in your point of view, so I hope you will return my interest, and read this answer thoroughly.

The only things I believe are things that are supported by measurable, testible, credible evidence. To me, anything else constitutes engaging in fantasy thinking, and there's no pressing reason why I, or anyone, should do this unless they prefer to live in a state of delusion.

I believe that turning the key on my car will start the engine because the evidence each day supports the belief. Not just by my own observations, but millions upon millions of other objective observers can corrolate this. Is it possible that one day the engine won't start? Of course, but that doesn't mean I don't believe it will start each time I get in. My belief, however, is always supported by evidence, not faith. If the engine doesn't start, I know it's because something mechanical failed, not because I "didn't believe devoutly enough."

At the same time, I do not believe that turning the key in my car will cause my house to explode. This is a rediculous belief, and even if, by some incredible chance, my house did explode the moment I turned the key in my car, I still would not be inclined to believe it was cause & effect. It would have to happen often enought to me, and many other people, before I'd start to entertain this belief.

Lets take a non-tangible. I believe that my sister loves me. Maybe I can't touch that love, or measure it, but I can observe her actions, hear her words, see her emotions. To the best of my ability, I can base my beliefs on what I can see, hear, touch, feel, etc. As long as she continues to express these behaviours, I find it easy to believe she loves me. If, one day she stopped doing these things, I would probably still believe she loves me. One could say I have "faith" in her love, but the truth is, my behavior is a product of a lifetime of her reinforcements. If she started to hurt me and treat me badly, in time I would begin to believe she did not love me.

Now, not that I have any pressing need to believe in god, but what is it in life that should encourage me to WANT to believe? My parents raised me to believe in god, but as I grew up I realized my parents were often mistaken. If I "love god", what feedback do I get? If I pray, what evidence do I have to show that my prayers mean anything? How does loving an intangible thing enhance my life? If god loves me, what proof to I have of this? How would I ever know if I was no longer being loved? In all these cases, SOMETHING would have to happen, again and again, for my belief system to become affected. That something needs to be a tangible thing, and a thing that other people beside me can experience if they did these things.

I live a good life. I love, and am loved, by friends and family. I am moral, ethical, and abide by the laws of my society. I am a "good" person. I help others when I can. I care for the earth. I treat people how I would like to be treated. I respect myself and those around me. The reason I do these things is because of the positive reinforcement I get from the world around me. I feel rewarded. I do all these things without any belief in god.

I am happy. I enjoy my life, and I look forward to the years ahead. I feel "connected" to the people around me, and even to nature at times. The reason I feel like this is because of the way I CHOOSE to approach life. I look at the world as a place of plenty. My conscious effort to see the world as neither a good or evil place, but simply a supporting environment that I am a part of, enables me to face each day with optimism. I do this without any belief in god.

I am not afraid to die, or that I will be judged. I know in my head, and from the feedback I receive from people around me, that I am am honest, principled and do the best I can to be a good person. Like everyone, I make mistakes, but I am neither heinous nor evil. I try as much as I can to make amends for my transgressions. Again, I do all these things without any belief in god, and I do not feel any less "alive", "accepted", or "worthy" of my existance because of my lack of belief.

I allow for the unknown. I accept that there is a body of knowledge, and a periphery of ignorance, and that the more we learn, the more we realize there is to learn. I am content with the idea that there are questions we can't answer. I do not feel compelled to believe, or assign these things, to god. I simply accept them as part of the mystery of existance, and concern myself with things that I can affect, or be effected by. I do not worry about matters that I have no control over.

That said, the only difference between you and me is that you have a concern (or a fear) of what awaits you after you die. I do not. You are worried that not devoting a portion of your life, your thoughts, your energy, to "worshipping and praising" a power or force greater than yourself will somehow result in exclusion, rejection, or punishment from some greater reward. I do not believe this.

In the grand scheme of things, that is ONLY THING that separates us.

I live my life how I feel I should, and although I suspect there is no afterlife or judgement, I am willing to face whatever consequences there may be if I am wrong. This is because I believe I am a mature, adult human being in control of my life, and willing to accept responsibility for my thoughts, beliefs and actions, no matter the cost. I could not live any other way.

If you are Christian, you subscribe to a belief system written by another human being which tells you what is right and wrong, and how to behave. This system (the bible) states within itself that it is authentic, and that if you have faith in its content, you will be rewarded for all eternity. I do not mean to sound derrogatory, but this is an illogical stretch, but then, so is faith. What is of far greater concern is that you can NEVER, EVER KNOW FOR CERTAIN if your loyalty to this system is misplaced. Admittedly, I can never know if my rejection of this system is a mistake, but while you will expend considerable effort and energy to maintain your faith over a lifetime, ultimately all you can do is wait and hope that when you die, your lifetime of loyalty will "start the car." Since I am not compelled by fear, guilt, or promise of reward, I simply live life effortlessly... as nature intended.

In all honesty, I give you tremendous credit for your loyalty and patience, but I also pity you for your blind servitude to fear and dogma. The irony is that in matters of everyday living, we are probably not all that different, but we are light years apart in how we approach death, and that is why we (as well as all other atheists and theists) will never see eye to eye on this subject.

Answer 2

Very well writen right up to the end where it falls apart. A few problems when looking at that essay: One, the point of the essay is to prove that there is a god, so the bias is huge and must be taken into account. Two, while it says that there is no non-organic it fails to mention crystaline structure wich will create predictable patterns both in formation and molecularly, and that all organisms are made up of atoms that are themselves not unlike a form of information. Three it quotes the Bible as a source, the Bible while important culturaly is not a valid source. It lacks any science, proof, or detailed information and carries a heavy bias. The answer that god is eternal is as good as saying that life was a random happening, who is to say either is true we were not there to see it happen. Additionaly there is more and more in our understanding of reality that we can explain with science that has replaced the religious explainations. These include things like mutations, natural disasters, the weather, the cosmos and space, etc. While life is complicated I do not doubt that it can be explained, so many unknowns have been made clear to us by science that it is likely only a matter of time until this is added to the list.

As a side note, if you take particle theory into account then everthing is a result of a chain reaction, this would include anything that could interact with matter (read: God). If this makes no sense think about how a computer works, imput>process>output. How are we any different, our brains are made up of the same stuff that your computer is(matter)?

Answer 3

No, it doesn't show me that god is real. It does show, however, the lengths that the christian movement will go to to attempt to corrupt scientific fact and reasoning to support a book that becomes a little more valid every day. The few arguements that it does put forth are nothing more than warped reasoning and personal belief. Case in point, claiming that mutations do not fuel the evolutionary process. This is patently false. Bacteria were mutating to become more resistant to antibiotics. Very few people suffered from illnesses brought about by these mutated strands. However, as the number of mutated bacteria increases and becomes the norm, it becomes known as a new strain of bacteria, related to, but not the same as the original...or to put it in more basic terms: The more resistant bacteria EVOLVED alongside and from the less resistant.

Fun little article, but frankly its unintelligent propaganda...

Answer 4

I have to say as a believer in God myself that your argument will mean a lot to someone who already believes, but I've never seen anyone change their beliefs based on that sort of thing.

I think what a lot of Believers don't understand is that many Atheists actually have very well thought out reasons for their beliefs. Arguing with them or damning them only strengthens those beliefs.

I think the best basis for any exchange of ideas is respect.

Answer 5

The idea of "intelligent design" seems logical. But there's a difference between that and believing in "God."

Would it be good enough for us to simply believe in God? No, we would need to believe in your God, Jesus Christ.

Let's agree that there is intelligent design. But how do you know the gods of Hinduism are not its source? I have several books on Hinduism I would like you to read. Not interested? Would you at least check out a website about Hinduism? No, I didn't think so. (...hypocrite.)

Answer 6

The universe contains mass. Einstein proved energy=mass. The Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore, the universe has always existed in some form. This is a hard concept for most of us to understand, as everything we see in our lives has a definite beginning and definite end. Yet nothing, not even the universe, can operate differently than what scientific laws state it can.

---Edit---
In case some people (Theists) didn't get the drift of my answer, it is that science has proven the universe doesn't need a creator.

Answer 7

No still. The article wasn't able to answer the big question of where did God come from.

Answer 8

Read the whole page. I am reading a book by Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion) in which he frantically appeals to the reader to admit that God is a delusion.
I find it amusing that believers cannot be content in just believing in God. They feel this need to convert everybody.
Atheists seem more calm and content and seem to respect and even admire those who believe in God.

Answer 9

I AGREE 150%!!!! that is waht i was trying to get across to my roommate one day in anthropology... we got into an argument about it about how i was wrong, and how evoltion and the big bang theory (which i find very confusing and have never understood... like the article said, how did something just change like that, its not logical..) are right and stuff like that... it is so frustrating...but i love that article, i'm gonna have to print it somewhere and take it to my pastor... he'll love it...

Answer 10

Proof that God is real...from a Christian site....

Yeah, that's reliable. Oh lordy, I've seen the wrong in my ways. I would repent, but I've been having way too much fun.

Answer 11

I read the bible 4 times cover to cover.

it is waht made me pagan.