Ok, give me your bible verses....?

Question

Do you believe this bible verse is correct?

"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!"
-Psalm 139:16

If yes, doesn't that mean that Charles Manson was just fullfilling god's plan? Hitler? Jeffrey Dahmer? Think about all the lives these killers affected. They and their victims days were Pre-planned according to this scripture.

If no, wyn not? Also, can you provide an explanation for the verse (or another verse that explains it) without CONTRADICTING it?

Wow! Some of you can't even answer a few simple YES or NO questions.....and no bible verses that "explain away" the verse above without contradicting it...hmmmm, interesting. Do you people just make it up as you go along?

Why are some of you talking about "free will"? Last time I checked "free will" isn't a bible verse. I asked some SIMPLE (YES or NO) questions and gave you the opportunity to provide bible verses to back up your answer. This leads me to the conclusion that you can't, without contradicting the verse above. Why not just admit that you don't know the answer and that your bible is FULL of contradictions? If you are soooo secure in your faith, why is a little contradiction so hard to admit?

hey fireball: You have NEVER provided an intelligent answer to any of my questions. You must be a child.

dezmodnar: Please provide a verse to back up that wild claim. You will find that MANY christians and non-christians will disagree with your bizzare interpretation.

hey kingreef7: what about "in thine book all my members were written". Written when? Before I was born? If god kew 1 million years ago that I would be here today.....then everything must have happened IN THE EXACT ORDER it happened. Surely murders occurred way back in my family tree. If just one of my ancestors was murdered, I wouldn't be here. If just one change occured, I wouldn't be here..... If hitler was never born, my grandfather would have had a much different life and I wouldn't be here (nor you, think about it..that war CHANGED the direction of millions of lives).
Now, either god knows and plans everything OR he doesn't.....which is it?

Answer 1

gino_ggg,
Okay, this is what I am getting from you. You are asking if the Bible is saying that God scheduled all of our days, right?

If that is right or at least similar, here's my answer;
Your translation seems to have been written to support Calvinism. I do not remember the versions that applies to, but here is another, from the King James Version:

Psalms 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. (KJV)

The Hebrew words are what I am after here, so that I can understand what is trying to be said here.

I think that 'fashioned' is the key word, so:
H3335 yatsar means to mould into form, squeeze into a shape.

I think that's a good rendition to apply into that verse. God is forming the days, it doesn't say you, though you are being formed as you get through those days, I could show you scriptures on that, but it is the days that He already formed for you that it is talking about in this verse. The choice of what to do with it is all ours, and that's also supported in the Bible. You can go your way, or God's way, or some other way, but those that are of God will seek to follow God instead of something, or somewhere else.

EDIT: Simple answer, Yes. The verse is correct, but I was being polite. Forgive me. You are equating forming the day to forming a person. So pay more attention to what you are doing, unless you want to be inaccurate.

Answer 2

1. You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!"
-Psalm 139:16
Amongst other reasons, including respect, the Psalms passage I looked up and reads somewhat different in the KJV Bible I presently keep near the computer. What version did you get it from?
doesn't that mean that Charles Manson was just fulfilling god's plan? Hitler? Jeffrey Dahmer? NO. Did God know how long those people were going to live? Yes. Did God know they would die via the people you mentioned? Yes.
Does that mean their death was God's 'plan'? No. What are 'plans' and what happens, can be two different things.

As for 'contradictitions' be careful, although I can presently understand much of the frustration too.
The Jews (Deut. 10-20) and Christians (Matt. 18:16, 2 Cor. 13:1)
are both given the 2 or more witnesses principle. To say it qiuickly, the scriptural 'old testament' is the law of Moses, not Genesis-Malachi. The scriptures do not contradict; they may be unified by 'the Lord said'., even though on the surface they may appear to be opposites (example; patience diligence).
Does that help?

Answer 3

Well, it is possible. God certainly does establish the governments of the world and who would have volunteered to be Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton, or for that matter Pharaoh of the Exodus account.
Who would have volunteered to shoot a bunch of innocents in a one room school house? However, the earth is at war, spiritually and there are two opposing forces locked in mortal combat. So a good many things happen that we just can't understand.
The truly scary thing is that any one of us could be pressed into playing one if these dastardly parts at any time. The human mind is such an easy thing to manipulate by spiritual forces. So it depends a good deal on where one looks for sanity.

Galatians 4:3 (21st Century King James Version)
3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one carries you off as spoil or makes you yourselves captive by his so-called philosophy and intellectualism and vain deceit (idle fancies and plain nonsense), following human tradition (men's ideas of the material rather than the spiritual world), just crude notions following the rudimentary and elemental teachings of the universe and disregarding [the teachings of] Christ (the Messiah).

Colossians 2:20
If then you have died with Christ to material ways of looking at things and have escaped from the world's crude and elemental notions and teachings of externalism, why do you live as if you still belong to the world? [Why do you submit to rules and regulations?--such as]

(Amplified Bible)

It would seem that mankind really does need a rock to anchor to.

Answer 4

Just because you know what will happen, doesn't mean you caused it to happen or want it to happen. Free will is one restriction God has placed on Himself to fulfill His plan for all of us. No matter how awful it is for God, He can't restrict this. So foreknowledge has nothing to do with foreordaining. All have the same right to choose their actions and all have the same right to be here.
Just because you know the sun will rise and set, doesn't mean you are to blame for it or that it was "pre-planned" by you.

I have added to my post because the asker added a bunch of comments. First of all, you must know very little about the Bible and Christianity if you think that things are this cut and dry. I fully admit that there are contradictions to the Bible, but I never said that it was perfect. I also don't believe it is the only source of truth. If you would think, rather than criticize, you would see that free will has everything to do with your question. I thought it was obvious that my answer was YES, but because it is a YES, I explained that it doesn't mean what you think it means. I am explaining why YES it is correct, but that it doesn't mean God planned for all this bad stuff. I can't respond on behalf of others, however, I agree there were some lame answers to this.

Answer 5

You know from your own life that you have free will.

The fact that God already knows everything that is going to happen, does not mean He is making it happen. Your argument is so old. I've heard it a million times over the years, and it's so easy to explain why it's wrong.

God does not MAKE people do bad things. God does not control us. If He did, we'd be a like a bunch of robots.

You have all the evidence you need (life experience) that humans have free will.

Answer 6

The Bible also states that God is not a respecter of persons. Man's sinful nature takes many of us over the edge, as in the lives of those whose names you cite.

But it's also interesting to note that Jeffery Dahmer repented, accepted Jesus as Savior, and went home to be with the Lord after he was murdered in prison.

"Son of Sam" Burkowitz also is now a devout Christian believer in prison.

So, here's your scripture:

Answer 7

The psalmist was talking about the book of life. Arguably, Manson, Hitler, and Dahmer's names are not in that book.

The pslamist was also writing about his understanding and experience of God. Before Christ came to earth, those faithful to God were faithful to the spirit but not to the letter, because the letter had not yet been provided. That is, this psalmist was speaking to God as he understood him, but he had no other Word to abide by but the Ten Commandments.

So, one does not need to find a verse to explain it. One needs to understand history to explain it.

Answer 8

Brilliant question and one that could take all day to discuss and ponder as one aspect leads to yet another and another.

If God is all knowing and knew that Hitler and Manson would use their free-will to do what they did, then why did He make them anyway? Why did God *want Hitler on earth?

I am reminded of the verse in Genesis 50:20 about the story of Joseph who's brothers sold him into Egptian slavery because they were jealous of him. To this Joseph forgave them and said, "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save many people alive."

We see in the story of Joseph that even when God allows something horrible to happen as kidnaping and murder and lies and the stealing of a birthright... there is an even bigger picture, one that we can't always wrap our minds around and understand, but must TRUST that God has a plan in spite.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. "
-- Isaiah 55:8-11

I have asked God this question of yours. I have asked it in many different ways. I have asked him why He even created *anything* if he KNEW in advance (being all knowing) that some would deny him and have to be sent to eternal damnation. I guess the answer boils down to the fact that God is God and we are not. If I am the created then who am I being *the created* to question the Creator's ultimate plan, as confusing and as unjustifiable in my little mind as that plan may seem to be.

But this was still not enough for me...

I pondered further and realized that; He could have created us as robots to be pre-programmed to adore him, but He loves us enough to allow us all FREEDOM, (something we all can understand now that Bush is in office* [yes, I am a conservative that doesn't like seeing our rights systematically destroyed]).

In any case, let me continue...

We know one thing for sure, that God knew some would deny him owing to their FREEDOM to choose, but this didn't stop God from creating all of us anyway. Why?

***KEY: He did not deny those of us who would choose him our lives, for the sake of those who would deny him anyway!*

Could it be that He, being a just God, had SO MUCH BEAUTY AND LOVE to share with those who He knew WOULD CHOOSE Him that he was willing to be sad about those who would surely deny Him. The fact that God could see his dearly beloved suffer such a great suffering for their denial and hatred toward him must mean that there is an all together different joy and beauty on the other side of that coin.

God wouldn't have done this if there wasn't a good reason. The question is, can you have faith that God's reasoning is sufficient? This is all we can do.

Answer 9

Yes, they were doing terrible things but they were fulfilling God's plan. Just like Pharaoh. Read Exodus chapter 8- chapter14. All these things happened so that God would be glorified. If we never have anything bad happen we will not be reminded that heaven is yet to come. And we will not have anything to unite us, and encourage us to see the difference between good and evil and follow the good.

I'm not saying God planned these things to happen. He didn't-that was the work of Satan which God allowed. God knows everything but he does not have anything to do with evil.

Answer 10

First of all, the texts to the psalms are SONGS... yes, they are lyrics. Important, inspired, spiritual lyrics, but they are lyrics.

Second, this is Bible Quarterbacking - taking scripture verses out of context and throwing them around like a football to prove a point. It's a pretty futile exercise since you are not only disrespecting the text and those who wrote it, but you are bound to have huge gaps in logic.