Trinity doctrine, what do you think?

Question

Trinitarians try to prove the doctrine of Trinity using the illustration of vapor (steam), solid(ice) & liquid(water).
Remember God is a spirit (notice singular noun and verb is used (is & spirit) not (are & spirits). So if God is a Spirit therefore in that illustration He is only in the manifestation of “steam” (spirit) and not “ice’ & “water”. God’s Son is the one who became flesh and not God himself. So the illustration given is wrong.

What do you think?

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Answer 1

made up by constantine

Matthew 28:19 explains the way in which someone should be baptised, it does not support the "Doctrine of the Trinity"

Answer 2

What really matters is: What does God think about Christendom falsifying who he really is? The trinity doctrine is man-made and it had it's beginning in ancient Babylon, The Babylonians did not worship the one true God, but triads of gods, shown in historical pictures having three heads.
People should consider what the Bible really teaches about the identity of God and his Son and God's active force or power.
Here is something to think about also:
Jesus was dead for the better part of three days. If Jesus is God and was dead for that long--then who was ruling in heaven all that time? If the holy spirit is also God, then it was dead too. So there would have been no God alive to pray to those three days, no God to do anything for anyone. Satan could have taken over the entire universe since "God" was dead. Satan is powerful and could have caused complete chaos for the earth, worse than we see now, if there was no God more powerful to prevent him from doing so.
Christendom has misled so many people by teaching them such a false pagan doctrine. If only people could come to know the true God (Psalms 83:18) and who he really is. Jesus tried to tell people about his Father and that they should worship his Father alone.
The reason people believe in such doctrines is found at
2 Timothy 4:3-4--"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."
I hope this answer helps.

Answer 3

I like that analogy I see God as solid the ice and Jesus as the water he said I am the living water and steam as the holy spirit all are made of the same substance but in different forms also H2 O is made of 3 elements 1 oxygen to 2 hydrogen's I would see the O as good and the H's as Jesus and the spirit all are of equal importance to make it water

Answer 4

Not true. When coming up with the trinity doctrine, the church first came up with it then found it difficult to explain. If it were biblical teaching, wouldn't they find it in the Bible first, instead of looking in the Bible for things to back it up?
When God said "let us create man in our image," He could very well have been talking to the angels, including the chief angel, Jesus. Just because in some visions angels had strange features, doesn't meant that they all look like that. The angel that talked to Daniel looked like a human being, as did many others.
In Ps 45: 6-8, the scripture is saying "That is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil..." Take another look. it says "God, your God" not "that is why, God, your God..." For example, if a woman has a son named Jason that died, someone might say something like "Jason, your Jason, has died!" It would not mean that the woman's name also was Jason. Likewise, the Psalm is saying "God," then to reinerate, "your God."
Many people use John 1:1 to support the trinity doctrine. The scripture actully disproves it. God is called "Ho theos" (the God) and Jesus is called "theos" (god). That word "theos" has been applied to Jesus, to Jewish priests, and to Satan. That word "theos" only means "powerful one." When it is preceeded by "ho" (the) then it means the only true God, Jehovah. Or, the one and only, ultimate powerful one. Jesus is a powerful one, so is Satan, and so were the priests. But Jesus is never called "ho theos," neither is anyone else besides Jehovah.
If you see a scripture that acknowledges Jesus, Jehovah, and the holy spirit, does that really mean that they are the same thing? If I went to the store and saw Johnny, Mike and Jamaal, does that mean they are the same person? Nope.
If you want to find the origin of the trinity, don't look in the Bible. You won't find it there. Look to Constantine, who already believed in a trinity, just like all the other pagans, but replaced the deities with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Jesus said that he and the father are one, but he also said the same of the apostles and all his followers. This only means oneness in purpose. If it were literal, then we should all be praying to the apostles, and to all Christians who have ever lived or died, and calling them "God." And we know that isn't true.
Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am." Well, in some translations it says that. Jesus was only saying that he has been around since before Abraham. When Jehovah called Himself "I am" (in some translations) he was saying "I shall prove to be whatever I choose to." In other words, He alone can become anything that he wants to; any form of help, or whatever. That is what YHWH ("Jehovah" in english) means: "He causes to become."
Being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit does not prove the trinity. It can be cleverly used by those who want to prove it as truth, but it really doesn't prove anything. It is in the name of the Father because, of course, He is God and the source of everything. It is in the name of the Son because it is by putting faith in his shed blood as a sacrifice that we can be saved. It is in the name of the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit moves us to become Christians and helps us endure trials throughout our Christian life. The holy spirit is not a person; it is God's active force that he uses to get things done. Look again at your Bible, and you will not get the idea that the holy spirit is a person unless you already believed that that was so.

Answer 5

The Necean Creed can certainly lead many to an incorrect view.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit is like the soul, the body and the works in a single person.

Swedenborg states:

"The idea of God, with all conception of Him, having been thus rent asunder, it is my purpose to treat, in their order, of God the Creator, of the Lord the Redeemer, and of the Holy Spirit the Operator, and lastly of the Divine trinity, to the end that what has been rent asunder may be again made whole; which is done when the reason of man is convinced by the Word and by light therefrom that there is a Divine trinity, and that the trinity is in the Lord God the Savior Jesus Christ, like the soul, the body, and what goes forth from these, in man; and that thus this article in the Athanasian Creed is true:"

"In Christ God and man, or the Divine and the Human, are not two, but are in one person; and as the rational soul and the flesh are one man, so God and man are one Christ." -- True Christian Religion n.4[3]:

Answer 6

What do I think? I think there is no such thing as "a or the" Trinity.

“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?

Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

1st of all Jesus said: He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. Joh 6:56, 57.

Jesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18) does not mean that the other spirit creatures produced were not God’s sons, for they are called sons as well. (Ge 6:2, 4; Job 1:6) However, by virtue of his being the sole direct creation of his Father, the firstborn Son was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Jehovah’s “only-begotten Son” in a particular sense,

Jesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) “He [Jesus] . . . gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Philippians 2:6) He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. (John 17:3;


Rev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him, why did God have to give the revelation to Jesus, if he is God? .

Does the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty? Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven.

A person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity.

Answer 7

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: " - Genesis 1:26

Who is "us", and "our"? God cannot be talking to angels... since we are made in God's image, God, therefore, does not look like angels (2 or 4 faces, that of a lion/ox/eagle/man or that of lion/man) with 4 or 6 wings, or fiery and serpent-like... since that is not what we look like.

Who else is God talking to? Well, let's dig a little deeper... What is the Hebrew word for "God" used here? "Elohim". Note, that the -im suffix implies "plurality" (think : Cherub, Cherubim. Seraph, Seraphim. Nephil, Nephilim... Eloah, Elohim).

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Who is the Word? Jesus Christ. What does it plainly say? "the Word was God". Can this mean anything other than was it says? No.

"No man has seen the Father except the Son"... "I and the Father are one"... " 'Show us the Father', 'Have you been with me so long, yet you do not know me? He who sees me, sees the Father' ". No one has seen the Father's spiritual form, except for Jesus... yet, if Jesus and the Father are one in very being, in the same train of thinking that a man and woman join together are also one, then it is not that much of a stretch to believe they are both God. They are two seperate beings, just as the man has his form, and the woman has her form... yet they are of the same existance, the same nature, the same mind, and the same state of being.

"For unto us a child is born, and he shall be called, Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." HELLO! Even Isaiah prophecied that the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ, would be "Mighty God, Everlasting Father". How can you quarrel with scripture?

Answer 8

Why I can’t believe in the trinity.

The royal we, idea to Genesis 1:26 and 3:22,

If Jehovah talked with the royal we or us, etc, why did He only do it only 4-5 times.

Why didn’t He or doesn’t He continue to do to so through out the bible.

Why didn’t He use the royal we at Gen. 1:29, 30 only 3 verses later, or Gen. 2:18, Gen. 3:11, 15
and through out the rest of the bible? Why at Isa. 6:8, does Jehovah say “Whom shall I send”?

Job 38:4-7 shows that the angels were existing at the creation of man, so Jehovah wasn’t alone and had many spirit creatures to talk to.

Instead, which sounds more real and truthful, that Jehovah was talking to someone who is His Master Worker, His Firstborn Son, His Faithful Witness, who is His image, His exact representation, OR He was talking to Himself. (Prov. 8:30; Heb. 1:3; Col 1:15)

Bible scholar Donald E. Gowan said “There is no support in the O[ld] T[estament] for most of the proposed explanations: the royal ‘we,’ the deliberative ‘we,’ the plural of fullness, or an indication of a plurality of persons in the Godhead.

Why does the word Elohim according to Strong’s Cyclopaedia, when it applies to Jehovah means Supreme God, not Gods? Even when this word is applied to Moses (Ex. 4:16 & 7:1) it doesn’t mean that there are 3 Moses, it doesn’t even mean there are 2 Moses.

(Side point when Jesus said if you see me you see the Father, it is because he is the image of God, the exact representation of his Father. When you see an image in a mirror you are seeing a representation, not the actual person. Col 1:15)

(Side point, According to my college dictionary, begotten means “to be born”, to be born means “brought into life or being” when was Jesus brought into life, when he came to life as a baby? No, as Jehovah’s Firstborn of creation Col. 1:15; Rev 3:14)

Answer 9

We are made in the image of God, so we are a trinity also. A body (shape, feelings), a soul (mind, feelings) & a spirit (connection to God through God's Holy Spirit). There needs to be Spiritual rebirth for the connection to God be restored.

Actually the vapor, ice & liquid is the same thing in different temperature. So isn't the same thing as God, trinity.

Jesus Christ has two visions of Him. One in Daniel as ancient of days & one to John in revelations where Jesus is visualized in human form.

Jesus put on flesh & blood, born of a virgin, without sin nature. Here to atone for our sins. Being sinless He rose from the dead with the keys to death & hell (taken from death & hell) victorious over death.

Also Jesus resurrected body is not flesh & blood, but a new everlasting body. At resurrection completed, we (redeemed by His blood) will be resurrected as He is.

Answer 10

The Trinity is a doctrine supported all through the Scriptures. It needs no defense through any illustration.It is a truth that must be perceived in the heart before it can be understood by the mind. St. Anselm and St Augustine both supported the concept of "Faith seeking understanding." That means that instead of seeking to understand so that we might believe, we should seek to believe so that we might understand. Read the Bible with an open mind and ask God to show you the answers you're looking for.

Answer 11

I disagree with you.

1) The word translated as "God" in our Bibles is the Hebrew word "Elohim," which is a pleural word meaning "Gods."

2) God refers to Himself in the pleural; see Genesis 1:26a. There is no evidence this is the "royal we," as some try to argue.

3) There are instances in the Bible where God the Father speaks to God the Son (Jesus Christ, a.k.a. The Word). In Psalm 45:6-7, the writer states: "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness, and hated wickedness: Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows." Notice that the word God is actually applied to two different Persons within these two verses. He is addressing God, and after addressing God, he says that another God had anointed the first God with the oil of gladness above "your" fellows. It should be noted that in this verse the first Elohim is being addressed. The second Elohim is the God of the first Elohim. Therefore, it is God’s God who has anointed Him with the oil of gladness. Another example may be found at Hosea 1:7.

4) Then there are Scriptural sources that reference ALL THREE Persons of the Trinity: Father, Son and Spirit:

Isaiah 42:1 "Behold, my [Father] servant [Son], whom I uphold; my chosen, in whom my soul delights: I have put my Spirit [Holy Spirit] upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles."

The first Person is the speaker, who is seen by the pronouns "my" and "I." The second Person is the speaker's "servant," the servant of Jehovah. And the third Person is the "Spirit" of God. Scripture repeatedly identifies Jesus Christ as God the Father's "Servant."

Isaiah 61:1 is a second example:

"The Spirit [person #1] of the Lord Jehovah [person # 2] is upon me [person # 3]; because Jehovah has anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he has sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;…" Again, there are three individuals: the Lord Jehovah; the Spirit of Jehovah; and the speaker ("me"). We know from Luke 4:18 that the person referring to Himself as "Me" is Jesus Christ.

There is MUCH more proof of the Trinity in the Bible. However, this is not the forum for such an extensive discussion. If you want more information, send me a message through YA and I'd be happy to send it to you.

Peace.