Why do people keep stating that people of religious faith are not rational, logical, or reason-based?

Question

I do not "believe" that thinking, conscious, human beings are random qiurks of nature. For if they are, then in the grand scheme of nature, life is meaningless. That is a logical conclusion.

The fact is, science cannot prove we are random quirks of nature, and religion cannot prove that we are not. Another logical conclusion is: if science could prove life could occur naturally, then it would, and the issue would be closed. But science cannot do that, and the belief that life can be occur naturally, is based on as much faith, as the belief in a creator. However, belief in a creator has much better logic (first cause, morals, life is purposeful, life is precious, etc.).

To me, Plato said it well:

“I think a man's duty is to find out where the truth is, or if he cannot, at least to take the best possible human doctrine and the hardest to disprove, and to ride on this like a raft over the waters of life.” -- Plato

To G-Texas,

How did Jesus act when he protected the adultress who was going to be stoned as per the bible? He was making a point.

What sort of man was David who God loved? He lived life fully! He had a harem, he did a lot of wrong things and was forgiven.

What about the parable of the talents, that tells you to find your destiny and live it fully? Are you reaching your potential in life?

A lot of the bible is historical and not prescriptive.

So here is another logical conclusion, regardless of what the Bible says, look at the best believers, and deduce what that means. My favorite is David, who was courageous, an artist, a fighter, a lover, and an upright man who made mistakes, even grave mistakes, but whose heart was in the right place.

JP:

My life means a lot to me, thus I can say that life is meaningful. However, in the grand scheme of nature, it matters not if I live or die. That conclusion can and has led to terrible philosophies and political systems.

Gravity is different than biology. Your remark on time scale is not right. There are millions of different forms of life and 1000's of unique biological functions. Nearly 98% of all species ever existing are extinct. Thus, "Macro" evolution should be observable as a very prevasive natural, biological force.

It is not and the fact still remains, that natural creation is still a hypothesis.

Salient2:

[Newsweek Article: Who needs a designer?] "Nonsense say biologists. It’s easy to imagine how a "random" mutation might have produced a patch of light-sensitive cells that helped a primitive creature tell day from night. You can also imagine how another mutation might have bent this patch of cells into a concave shape that could detect the direction….

Sorry, but natural selection does have a random component imbedded in the theory.

Answer 1

Many people are both spiritual and logical thinkers. Because you belong to a certain faith or choose to believe in a certain deity does not make you untelligent or illogical. There are Christians in almost every field, including science, and many pastors are also teachers and business people.

Answer 2

You are only limited by your own imagination. Just because you cannot think of a good explanation for how we got here, you invent a magician called god to do the whole thing for you. You do not beleive that a real life magician can saw someone in half, there is a logical explanation, it is an illusion, so why do you not accept that it could be possible that the world may give the illusion of being designed, when infact the real truth that all you see is the product of billions of years of natural selection is a much more satisfying answer.

The earth is wonderful, and no less wonderful for being the product of evolution. Surely it is enough to look at a garden and appreciate its beauty without trying to imagine that there are fairies at the bottom of it.

Answer 3

Actually, abiogenesis is a well researched field and already is starting to bear some potential fruits. Sorry.

And science doesn't operate on your time scale. We're STILL waiting to figure out how gravity works, after all. We know relativity is wrong/incomplete (incompatibilities with quantum gravity) but it's the best model we have right now. By your logic, we should have the final model already since people have been working on it since Aristotle.

And I see no reason to reject or accept the premise that life is extrinsically meaningful. Life has only the meaning we ourselves bring to it, though that's kind of a moot point since we have no free will (nothing in physics would allow such an emergent behavior from the biology of the brain). How does life being meaningful or meaningless enter into the logic of it?

Answer 4

quote
[“I think a man's duty is to find out where the truth is, or if he cannot, at least to take the best possible human doctrine and the hardest to disprove, and to ride on this like a raft over the waters of life.” -- Plato]
you notice that Plato didn't say anything about haveing faith or believing in a god
but to find out the truth by investigation

Answer 5

That's a really good question. I just ended a horrifying conversation with someone who thought that being religious made you evil and stupid. Which is quite the contrary seeing that Einstien, and Newton who were both very smart were religious as well.

The best conclusions I can come to is that they believe god is a fictional character, like Santa Claus, and that those of us who pray to a God are wasting our time. Another one is persecution. A lot of religious people will actually judge atheists as "Bad" people, (Which is normally against thier own religion) and atheists have become sick of this, and prod religious people with that NON fact to hurt them back. They may also sight all problems that are connected to religion such as religious war, blaming religion itself for the actions that people chose.

Let me say that because one person is religous does not make them better than someone who is not, and you can help people and make a meaningful life for yourself without being religious.

You are correct that Science can't prove God doesn't exist. Nothing can prove or disprove such a thing's existance.
In my view, that's a big part of being human. IMO, without that mystery, we would not be as smart as we are, because to contemplate said mystery our brains are exorcized.

Answer 6

Well, if you just go ahead and redefine reason and logic to suit yourself, fine. You shouldn't expect everyone else to understand your odd definition though.
rea·son (rzn) KEY

NOUN:

The basis or motive for an action, decision, or conviction. See Usage Notes at because, why.
A declaration made to explain or justify action, decision, or conviction: inquired about her reason for leaving.
An underlying fact or cause that provides logical sense for a premise or occurrence: There is reason to believe that the accused did not commit this crime.
The capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought; intelligence.
Good judgment; sound sense.
A normal mental state; sanity: He has lost his reason.
Logic A premise, usually the minor premise, of an argument.
VERB:
rea·soned , rea·son·ing , rea·sons
VERB:
intr.

To use the faculty of reason; think logically.
To talk or argue logically and persuasively.
Obsolete To engage in conversation or discussion.
VERB:
tr.

To determine or conclude by logical thinking: reasoned out a solution to the problem.
To persuade or dissuade (someone) with reasons.

As you can see, you might be thinking one definition of reason(first one) while your detractors are thinking another(third one). I think that you know what we're talking about and you just choose to ignore that.

Answer 7

First you ask "Why do people keep stating that people of religious faith are not rational, logical, or reason-based?" Then you immediately make two logical fallacies.

First you make a strawman, claiming that science or atheists claim we are random quirks of nature. It does not. Natural Selection is anything but Random. Then you make a false dichotomy posing that random quirks of nature and gods are the only possiblities.

If you don't want to be considered illogical and dishonest then don't make dishonest logical fallacies, it is as simple as that.

Answer 8

This is a serious question?

Well... the only thinking people who are religious are the ones who thought about how much money could be made by taking advantage of the people who seek answers. And the ones who came up with the lies in the first place, and the ones who somehow continue to shroud the ridiculousness of religion from the ones who believe in it.

Answer 9

It is not that the people are illogical. It is the books and the doctrines that make no sense. The books are riddled with contradictions and yet, some people just accept whatever they read in there as fact. That is illogical.

Answer 10

Because they feel that by bashing your beliefs, it will make them more secure in their own. Pathetic, isn't it?

I respect your position. There is much we do not, and cannot, know. But I do know that there is a purpose to this life, and it is more than just random genetic mutations.