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Does it relate to something that happened with prominant figure with the name of 'Welch' Or could it be from the old bigot rhyme of Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was ---ect

2006-10-01 02:16:39 · 6 answers · asked by Anonymous in Arts & Humanities Genealogy

6 answers

The English always looked down on the people from Wales
thus the saying welsh on meaning not pay a debt

2006-10-01 02:25:50 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 0 0

Welch
Welch is an archaic form of Welsh, one that pretty much survives only in the sense meaning someone who does not fulfill a bet. This usage dates to around 1857. The origin is obscure, but it undoubtedly originated as an ethnic slur. The term may derive from an old nursery rhyme that included the words "Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief."

2006-10-02 01:43:14 · answer #2 · answered by AL 6 · 0 0

welsh is the saying, not welch . The saying goes Welsh for deceit. Hence Welsh on .

2006-10-01 13:10:49 · answer #3 · answered by cr 1 · 0 0

"Does anyone in the Land of the Free ever welsh on a bet? How do you think that makes the welsh feel. Well, if they take offence, it makes them look and feel stupid: welshing on a bet (more properly welch) derives from the practice of the *English* inhabitants of the Welch Marches who, faced with debt they could not pay, would flee *to* Wales."

OR

"I have always heard WELCHED (or at least thought that was what I heard) in the U.S., but most dictionaries seem to give WELSHED as their first choice.

WELSH or WELCH: 1) To swindle a person by not paying a debt or wager. “ 2) To avoid dishonorably the fulfillment of an promise or obligation. <“They welshed on their contract and left us in a fine mess.”>

This expression, which casts the Welsh as being natural thieves, seems to be rooted in the time-honored tradition of racist stereotyping and many other groups including the Irish, Scotch, French, Jew/Hebrew, Dutch, Chinese, Greek, etc. have received similar treatment by becoming pejorative prefixes as Jonathon Green in 'Ask the Wordwizard' points out:
quote:
<“'Welshing / welching' (and thus its verb 'to welsh or welch') is one of those nasty little terms that stems from racial stereotyping, in this case of the Welsh as being natural thieves. This is best (worst) summed up in the 'nursery' rhyme 'Taffy was a Welshman | Taffy was a thief | Taffy came to my house | And stole a side of beef.' As well as the stereotype one should also note the earlier use of Welsh (and such synonyms as 'Greek' or 'Hebrew') to mean an alien and even criminal language. Thus in German one finds the 16th century 'rotwelsh': beggar's patter or criminal cant.”>
The cheating sense (see quotes below) arose in the mid-19th century in sporting circles, particularly at racetracks, where bookmakers who took bets and then absconded were known as WELSHERS or WELCHERS. Presumably some of them having too many winners against them, fled over the border to Wales (were said to have ‘gone Welsh,’ as Bob tells us above) and perhaps some were even from Wales. Wales was long regarded by the English as the home of thieves as noted in the above poem Taffy was a Welshman, which is said to already have been old in the 17th century. TAFFY is a generic name for a Welshman, a corruption of ‘David’ the patron saint of Wales, and is said not to be found objectionable by Welshmen. However, the second line ‘Taffy was a thief’ and the later meaning of reneging on a bet or promise is said by some with Welsh blood to be an outrage and a slander.
quote:
<1857 “He got his living by ‘WELCHING’ and taking in the ‘flats’ [[gullible people, dupes]]”—‘Morning Chronicle,’ 8 June, page 8/3>

<1867 “Money which people have been ‘WELSHED’ out of.”—‘Sporting Life,’ 21 September>

<1868 “Some two or three of the prolific ‘WELSHING’ fraternity did manage to carry on their nefarious operations.”—‘Morning Star,’ 26 March>

<1887 “He will receive his winnings and run no risk of being ‘WELSHED.’”—‘Daily Telegraph,’ 12 March, page 5/2>

<1894 “He . . . had a narrow escape of being lynched by the crowd for WELSHING.”—“Dorothy’s Double,” I. page 57>

<1902 “In France . . . betting . . . had increased . .. because people were not now afraid of being WELSHED.”—‘Times,’ 8 March, page 14/3>
The sense of breaking all sorts of promises has been used at least since the 1930s.
quote:
<1932 “I really can't WELSH on Eyler Simpson (who is equally responsible, since he signed the lease with me).”—‘Letters’ (1965) of H. Crane, January, page 395>

<1971 “The real shadow on this couple was that Commander Henry thought Rhoda had WELSHED on their courtship understanding.”—‘Winds of War’ by Herman Wouk, i. page 4>

<1974 “When the brothers were captured on a bank raid, the British government WELCHED on them, dropped them like a hot penny.”—‘Socialist Worker,’ 2 November, page 5/1>

<1978 “Very few people WELSH on paying their taxi fare.”—‘Lancashire Life,’ April, page 73/4>

<1982 “Across his desk . . . had crossed copies of angry SS memoranda addressed to army officials and complaining that the army was WELCHING on its arrangement.”—“Schindler’s Ark” by T. Keneally, v. page 72>
Some other examples of the pejorative use of Welsh are:

WELSH AMBASSADOR [1607]: A cuckoo or an owl, two birds with loud, monotonous calls.

WELSH BAIT [1603]: A foodless, drinkless, rest given a horse at the top of a hill, where ‘bait’ here means food.

WELSH COMB [1796]: The thumb and four fingers used to smooth one’s hair. Also known as a ‘German comb.’

WELSH CRICKET [16th to early 17th century]: A louse, also a tailor.

WELSH DIAMOND [1884]: A rock crystal used by jewelers. Also know as an ‘Irish diamond.’

WELSH EJECTMENT [1811]: To unroof the house, a method practiced by landlords in Wales to eject a bad tenant.

WELSH FIDDLE [circa 1700]: The itch

WELSH GOAT [mid-18th century]: nickname for a Welshman

WELSH MILE [1652]: Long and tedious

WELSH MORTGAGE: A pledge of land in which no day is fixed for redemption

WELSH PARSLEY [circa 1635]: A hangman’s noose

WELSH RABBIT [1725]/RAREBIT [1785]: Toasted bread and cheese where cheese is possibly used as a substitute for the ‘real thing.’

WELSHMAN’S HOSE with LIKE A, MAKE A, TURN LIKE [circa 1520-1600]: To suit the meaning of (a word, etc.) to one’s purpose.

(Cassell’s Dictionary of Slang, Wicked Words by Rawson, A Dictionary of Slang by Partridge, Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins, Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase & Fable, A Dictionary of the Underworld by Partridge, Merriam Webster’s and Random House Unabridged Dictionaries, American Heritage Dictionary, Oxford English Dictionary)"

OR

"Etymology: Although the origins of this word are unknown, it might be an old slur againt people from Wales in Great Britain, implying that people from that region (the Welsh) don't pay their debts."



Bottom Line? As usual, no one can say for SURE what the etymology of the phrase is - but it does make for interesting speculation

2006-10-01 09:35:02 · answer #4 · answered by johnslat 7 · 1 0

It means that one "Welched" on whatever it was that they said they would do at that time.

2006-10-01 09:22:28 · answer #5 · answered by Maggie 5 · 0 0

could it have something to do with idea that welshmen are cheap???

2006-10-01 14:10:56 · answer #6 · answered by bluebird 2 · 0 0

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