what do u think about this??? question was :is heaven in sky?

Question

i was reading this .
i have been so confused about religion for several months!!!
i just settle down, see that GOD is god, jesus is his son...
figure that not all of the bible kjv, is real, but maybe 65% or so..!!
man written, man re written,,,
then i run across this!!
plezz read and comment. can u defend the bible?


by mesquiteskeetr
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DuckPhupAbout Me
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According to the bible, heaven is on the other side of the sky. Genesis requires a literal interpretation, in order for it to make sense... no metaphors... no allegory... no hidden meanings. It takes no more that a critical reading of the first few verses of Genesis to ascertain that it is all a myth. In biblical times, people thought that the earth and heaven were all that there was... and that the earth was essentially a 'terrarium' (you might want to look that up). They thought that the sky was a solid object, called the 'firmament', and that the sun, moon, and stars were affixed to it. So, essentially, heaven is 'on the other side of the sky'.

The story of Genesis is comprised of the myths, superstitions, fairy tales and fantastical delusions of an ignorant bunch of Bronze Age fishermen and wandering goat herders, lifted from the oral traditions of other cultures, and crafted into a tale that incorporated some of their own folk tales and pseudo-history. This collection of ignorance provides the basis for the Abrahamic death cults of desert monotheism... Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

The cosmological aspects of Genesis are perfectly understandable, if you contemplate them in the proper context. At the time the bible stories were concocted, the perception was that the earth was the object and the center of creation. Why? Because they had no reason to think otherwise. Today, as we advance science, we stand upon the shoulders of all the scientists that came before. Back then there were no shoulders to stand upon... so they did the best they could with what they had... their senses and their imaginations.

* They had no concept of 'outer space', and so they conceived that in the beginning all that existed were dark waters.

* They had no concept of 'nothingness'. Remember, the concept of 'zero' wasn't invented (discovered?) until thousands of years later. With that in mind, the term 'void', as it is employed in Genesis, can not refer to 'nothingness'... it can only be applied in its alternative definition, which is 'empty'. So, the waters were dark, formless and empty (devoid of content).

* They thought that all of creation consisted of the earth and an unseen 'heaven', and they thought that the sky was a 'thing'... a substantive 'firmament' that was created by god to separate the waters and differentiate earth from heaven, when both were created.

# They had no idea that Earth was a planet, orbiting the sun.

# They had no idea that there is no firmament... that the sky is not a 'thing'.

(If you don't believe that they thought the sky was an object... a solid barrier... consider the Tower of Babel, that they were building to reach heaven. Apparently, God ALSO thought that the sky was an object, since it concerned him so much that he confounded their speech, so as to disrupt their project and keep them from reaching his domain. God must be pretty much of a dumbass, if he doesn't even know the actual configuration of the universe that he created. So much for the 'inerrant' bible.)

* They thought that the sun was a light that god had placed upon the 'firmament' to differentiate night from day.

# They had no idea that the sun is a star... the center of our solar system.

# They had no concept of 'stars' in the same sense that we understand them today.

* They had no idea that night and day were a consequence of the earth's rotation.

* They thought that the moon was a 'lesser' light that god had caused to travel across the firmament to enable man to differentiate the seasons, and provide illumination at night.

# They had no concept of the moon as a satellite.

* They thought that the stars were tiny lights that god had placed upon the firmament to provide for omens. (Some thought that the stars were 'holes' in the firmament that allowed the 'light of heaven' to shine through.)

# They had no idea that the stars were suns, just like our own sun.

# They thought the eyeball-visible planets (Mercury, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn) were 'wandering stars'.

# They had no idea that the planets were actually sun-orbiting bodies, just like earth.

* They had no idea that the earth, itself, is a planet.

# They had no clue as to the actual nature of the earth, our solar system, the place of our solar system in the galaxy... or even of the existence of our galaxy. (Up until very recently, we didn't even know that there were other galaxies. Our galaxy, when it was first known that there actually WAS a galaxy, was thought to be the whole universe.) From their perspective, the 'earth' and 'heaven' (i.e., whatever existed on the other side of the sky) represented all that there was. A terrarium.

I do not say these things to disparage what they thought back then. They were trying to do what science is trying to do today... trying to understand nature and reality. Today, we have technology and disciplined meta-procedures (scientific method) to help us extract answers from nature.

Back then, they did not.

Today, we have 'theories' to provide a consistent explanatory framework for what we are able to observe in nature, supplemented and validated by the additional information that we are able to extract from nature by means of our technology, our disciplined methods and our intellectual tools (mathematics, logic). Most of our theories are incomplete, so we continue to work on them... because we know that they are incomplete.

Back then, they did not have disciplined methods, and they did not have the technology to extract answers from nature. The only information they had access to was what they could see with their own eyeballs. There was no technological knowledge base or scientific context in which to interpret their observations, so they had to appeal to their imaginations... and the 'supernatural'... in order to make sense out of what they saw. Actually, what they really achieved was deluding themselves into thinking that they knew the truth. Amazingly, over time, this delusion has become codified, institutionalized, and incorporated... complete with franchises.

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"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance... it is the illusion of knowledge." ~ Daniel Boorstin
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Basically, Genesis can be thought of as a 'hypothesis', concocted by people who were constrained by lack of technology, methodology and intellectual tools... but they sure weren't constrained by lack of imagination.

Today, we try to interpret Genesis in the context of what we KNOW about the universe... galaxies, stars, planets, moons, gravity, orbits, inclination of the earth's axis, planetary rotation, etc. They problem is that Genesis CAN'T be interpreted in terms of those things, because Genesis was written by men, based on oral traditions, and those men DID NOT KNOW about those things. They could only write about what they could see and what they could guess about the reasons that lay behind what they saw. In any event, it provided them with a mechanism to quell the innate anxiety that comes with fretting about how and why they came to be here.

They guessed wrong.

So... the cosmological aspects of Genesis require a literal interpretation... no metaphors... no allegory... no hidden meaning. The key, though, is in understanding that the literal interpretation DOES NOT lead to a description of the way things ARE... it leads to a description of the way they THOUGHT things are. It leads to a naive description of reality, concocted by people who were doing the best they could with what they had.

It is absolutely appalling, though, to realize that hundreds of millions of people, TODAY, including participants in this forum, ACTUALLY BELIEVE that this mythological nonsense is actually TRUE.


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"Myth has been needed precisely because we were not in a position to understand the universe on its own terms, through the language of natural law and direct examination of its workings on a material, rational level. Once that process of understanding is completed—and we are well on our way to achieving that—the use of myth can be discarded. Its continuing retention is already proving to be counter-productive." - Earl Doherty
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Answer 1

Yes, myth. The "sky" extends 14.5 billion light years in every direction. Possibly much, much further than that.

Two comments on the extensive details of this question. (1) Back then, and even now, we still lack imagination. (2) Yes, it's absolutely appalling that millions of people "actually believe . . ." Unbelievable, actually.

Answer 2

In the first place, he provides no references so it's really hard to check his reasoning. He can say anything he wants to since he's not referring to chapter and verse.
Some of what he says doesn't even refer to the Bible. The reference to "holes in the universe" is a Middle Ages thing and not Biblical.
If you read Genesis 1:14-19 you will note that, while it does not sound "scientific" it is not inaccurate either.
He makes a lot of grand assumptions about how stupid and ignorant these people were but he is wrong. They had a whole class of people whose job it was to study the stars and chart their movements, very similar to astronomers today, without all the fancy equipment.
Also, if the Israelites were so ignorant how is it they understood the condition of the earth enough to write "He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing." Job 26:7
If they didn't understand the universe why did they write in 2 Kings 23:5 "He suppressed the idolatrous priests whom the kings of Judah had appointed to make offerings at the shrines in the towns of Judah and in the environs of Jerusalem and those who made offerings to Baal, to the sun and moon and constellations--all the hosts of heaven." They understood what the sun, moon, and stars were.
There were also many other references to stars, the sun that while not written like science do not show ignorance either. Get a good concordance and check out some of these things yourself.
God didn't punish the people of the Tower of Bable for building a tower. He punished them because they were so full of themselves that they thought that they could build a tower which would reach God. They were ignoring the real God and making themselves equal to God. God hadn't the slightest fear that they would reach even the closest cloud much less "heaven".
The only place where I can find the term "wandering stars" is in Jude vs13. In this instance the phrase isn't meant to indicate anything celestial but is talking about Godless men.
I don't think that this guy knows what he is talking about. He is drawing references from time periods other then Biblical ones. He doesn't interpret verses correctly. In short, he wants to debunk the Bible without knowing anything about it or, for that matter, anything about the time period when it was written. Ignore him.

Answer 3

ok, I got to here:

ALSO thought that the sky was an object, since it concerned him so much that he confounded their speech, so as to disrupt their project and keep them from reaching his domain. God must be pretty much of a dumbass, if he doesn't even know the actual configuration of the universe that he created. So much for the 'inerrant' bible.)
and lost it

this person is not of whom he speaks. and by that I mean that he's not telling you or anyone the truth

you need to understand a couple of things here. you are on a quest - so quest..... visit the website
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
and you will see that the entire argument that this person presents can be countered - and countered appropriately and intelligently.
yes, the bible is true, it's literal and it's not written by pagans who had a hope of explaining away the cosmos.... honestly !

here are a few more websites to puruse. I hope you are prayerful in your consideration of them and that you are willing to have an OPEN mind (something that athiests and darwinists refuse to have no matter what they say)
http://www.discovery.org/
http://www.reasons.org/

PS - know this - there are THOUSANDS of reputable scientists living today that do not support darwinism or ancient earth theories....

pps - yes heaven is a real place. God lives in another dimension that we do - therefore it is not physically visible at this time. We will see it when we are called to see it.

Answer 4

The earth was made from nothing... the book of genesis is not to be taken completely as it is written... you have to study it and ask GOD to show you the true meanings... if you study and pray about it enouhg, GOD will tell you the truth about it all...
now i'm gonna go paragraph by paragraph and clear things up
Frist and foremost, Genesis is not a bunch of myths and fairytales... It is all ture... the whole Bible is ture...
The Bible "Stories" were not fake... they were real things that happened to real people...
The people had no concept of nothingness, but GOD created the world out of nothingness... no matter what people say... that is what the Bible says... and what the Bible says is always right
they weren't building a tower to reach the sky and "stand" on that, they were building the Tower of Babel to reach heaven.... they thought that heaven was up in the sky, not the other side of the sky...GOD knows what the sky is made up of... the person that wrote that is obviously an idiot...
The sun is a light that GOD placed in the sky, and to clear something up, Firmament means expansion, void spot, empty space... i just looked in all of my Bibles... i have 3 differents ones, all of them are the KJV version... they all say that it is just an empty space or expansion... they say nothing about it being a solid object...
Ok, these people lived back before we had any techonology whatsoever... do you really expect them to know that Oh that bright shiny thing in the sky is called a star... thats common knowlegde??? come on... if you honestly think that then there is something wrong with you...
they trusted in GOD to do all things... they didnt have to know that the earth rotated around the sun(star, birght light in the sky, what ever you want to call it, all are right) they didn't care... all they cared about was pleasing GOD
They didn't think that the stars were omen and no where in the Bible does it say that they believed that they thought that the stars were holes in teh sky that allowed GOD's glory to shine through... i highly doubt they believed that anyway because if they had seen thought that, they would have hid themselves from seeing the stars or making it so that anypart of them were "visible" to the star... They believed that just looking at GOD could kill you becuase of his awesome power....
THey had no idea about any of the things that this idiot is saying because they hadn't studied them... they hadn't realized what they were... they didn't have the technology to know this... i would laugh so hard if we were all wrong and that the stars werent actually what we all think they are... i know that they most likely are what we think they are, but there is this slight chance that we could be wrong...
Back then they didn't really care about the stars like that... they just used them for travel.. thats it...
Can i find this guy and kick him or something??? he is such an idiot and im sorry that you had to read this article thing... i'm trying to clear it up for you...
Ok Genesis is not a hypothesis... nothing in the Bible is a hypothesis... it is all fact... People didn't "concoct" the Bible... GOD told each and every person that wrote a book of the Bible exactly what to write... i'm not exactly sure where it is, but somewhere in the Bible it says that the Bible is GOD's own words to mankind, or something to that extent... in short, it is GOD's words, written down by man for him...
again, the people who wrote the BIble didn't "guess" about what to write, they were told, GOD actually spoke to people back then, like actually verbally spoke to them... they could what he was saying, but he only talked to his prophets... the ones that he picked...
"The key, though, is in understanding that the literal interpretation DOES NOT lead to a description of the way things ARE... it leads to a description of the way they THOUGHT things are." This is a bunch of crap... this is what it should say:
The key, though, is in understanding that the literal interpretation DOES lead to a description of the way things ARE... it DOES NOT lead to a description of the way they THOUGHT things are. The Big Bang Theory and the other theories, like evolution (but thats a whole nother topic and you don't want to get me started on that... how did the cells change like they THINK they did???? i just odn't get it... its not plausible, or however you spell it... it was needed and isn't true...sry... had to say it)
"It is absolutely appalling, though, to realize that hundreds of millions of people, TODAY, including participants in this forum, ACTUALLY BELIEVE that this mythological nonsense is actually TRUE." This is making me mad... what is absolutely appalling is people like this retard that wrote this who are so stupid and cant see the difference between fact and fiction... the big bang theory isn't plausible either... in all actuality, for the amount of force that would have been needed to create what was created, all of the living things on any planet would have died... thus there would be no humans or anything living at all...

i hope this helped... i know it took me forever to write it an everything i said came straight from the Bible, except, or course, my little rantings... but i couldn't hold them in, but everything else is directly from the Bible... the one TRUE source... I hope you understand everything and i hope that i will see you in Heaven... i wish i could help you more... and one more thing, don't always believe what you hear... i hope that you have a KJV verison of the Bible and go through and look up everything that i have said and everything that anyone says and depend upon the Bible to give you the real TRUTH... God bless and good luck...

Answer 5

2 Timothy 2:15-Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1.This person obviosly read the bible just to try and point out holes in it

2.No not all of Genesis is meant to be read literal. For example:The seven days mentioned in the very begining of Genesis is actuall seven of God's days wich is equivalant to 7000 if our (humans or intelligent life) years.1of gods days equals 1000 of of our years; I know that concept just blows the mind of scientist who have gotten set in their ways of saying this took a million years and that took a trillion years, but Gods word just blows all that out of the water and reveals it as the lies that they are

3.The fact that they did not have fancy flashy technology like we do today does not delude the fact that there were people back then that were much closer to God back then than we are now.So it's very much possible that god told them or inspired them with the words to right in His word.

2 Peter 3 :8-But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


P.S-I took the time to read all, yes all of the babble you copied and pasted.

www.eagleswing.org

Answer 6

For me I believe the Bible is God's word. It was writen by men withthe gidance of the Holy Spirit.

Answer 7

I didn't read all of that stuff but Heaven is in another dimension

Answer 8

I congratulate anyone who took the time to read to the end of your question. (not me),