Armed Forces?

Question

How come anyone in public can buy military equipment like tanks,aircraft,armoured vehicles like the Stalwart,Tornado fighter planes,things like the Stalwart iv seen many time at adventure or corporate days whilst doing medical cover,Yet our forces seem to be short of the right vehicles for their safty and to do the job they are expected to do overseas.Sorry I could go on but would be interested in responses fro miltary or ex military personnel.I think the going rate for a Tornado or Abbot Mobile Gun is from £5000 to £8000.

Some ppl seem to have misunderstood this equipment is ex army or airforce I live in the UK,Although its second hand it seems to work perfectly to make money for the ppl who buy them so why are our forces not able to use them.

Also I have worked with these ppl and the prices quoated are approx right if you know where to go.

To animpalwa,Thanks for info agree exept on one point the Tornado,s,there is a company down south that do operate a Tornado for experience flights for the public also whilst at Preston some years ago BAC at Braughton were reconditioning Canbera Bombers for the Pakistan Gov also decommissiond ships for the Indian Navy its a whole can of worms isnt it.

Answer 1

The millitary equipement you see for sale is ex forces out of date stuff that they no longer use. The reason our forces don't always have enough is because they do not receive enough money from the government to buy it. By selling old stuff on they can at least make a little bit back. There is a discrepancy between the money the government give and what they expect our forces to do.

The Tornado will still be in service for quite a few years to come and as a strike aircraft it is very good. As an Interceptor it is flawed since it was never designed to be one. My Brother works for BAE military aircraft division and he could tell you all about which aircraft are rubbish (although legally he's not allowed too )but the Tornado IDS is not one of them. The Tornado ADV however was a stop gap and only developed because the RAF couldn't afford to pay for a totally new design. They could have simply purchased an exisiting type such as the F15 but that would have meant swallowing a lot of British pride. However it is still effective at what it does i.e firing medium range fire missiles at a target out of visual range then turning around and flying away. After all it's not like the RAF is likely to be fighting any wars against a technologically advanced enemy in the near future. You could have defeated the Iraqi air force with Phantoms.
There has been quite a bit of opposition to the Eurofighter Typhoon. Why do we need an aircraft like that to fight in Afganistan and Police Iraq? It's not like Russia is a threat any more and China is more interested in economic power so where is the enemy we are building these weapons to fight. The money could probabaly have been better spend on give our boys on the ground better kit. Modern radios for example.

Only the US continues to have a money no object approach to building new weapon systems. I'm not sure why though? I guess perhaps a few powerfull men stand to make money from it. Perhaps the war against terror is just a scam to convince the American people that the US government needs to spend billions buying the F22 Raptor rather than spending the money on health care!?!

Just a thought...

Answer 2

I agree with alot of what everyone is saying, also you have to remember that alot of the equipment is too old, obsolete, no longer economically viable, or too badly damaged too repair.

Regarding the tornado's they are good at what they do but that is only because of the avionics and weapon systems which are put in them. The crews that fly them are without doubt among the best in the world even though they are a pig to fly, but even more of a pain to maintain, as it is an ageing airframe, the engineers are also the best and without those unsung hero's keeping them serviceable there would be no jets for the crew to go and punch holes in the sky with.

Tornado's were only meant to be in service for approx 20 years but the GR version had its mid-life update 5 years ago, the F3 has been extended till approx 2012 as the Saudis jumped the que for the euro-fighter

At the moment I believe you can buy a tornado for approx £5k, but that is only the empty airframe with no avionics, engines, weapons, or ejector seats or anything of value because all those parts are used to keep the rest flying.

Answer 3

First of all those pieces of Equipment you list are now all obsolete and have or are currently being superseded by new alternatives which are more cost effective..

Abbot by the AS90 self propelled Gun ( longer range and more tactically flexible)
Stalwart (1960s design) by 8 separate types of vehicle (task dependant)
Tornado by the Eurofighter (Typhoon)

The list of equipment could go on & on, I agree on your comment with regard to Force safety however the equipment listed is not suitable for todays type of conflict, that is why vehicles like the new Cougar are being purchased as they are designed for insurgencie operations. Also please note that the equipment is demiliterised before sale plus any Tornados that might be sold would be to collections and would not get a Flight Safety Certificate for private use so they wouldnt be allowed to fly.

Answer 4

I wouldnt buy a Tornado for £5 (its still very, very expensive. Ask the Saudi's), useless lump of crap that it is. All our equipment is pants and people buy them because their under the illusion, an illusion propogated by BAE systems (and their partner companies), that our stuff is really good.

We need helicopters. The Services have never had a lot of them, never mind enough to sell. We need more soldiers, and we do sell them, down the river. We need hardskinned landrovers, but they've never been standard issue (only in N Ireland I believe). Instead we gave the few we had to the Iraqi Govt.

Obsolete equipment like the Abott still costs money to maintain and man, thats why when its obsolete we sell it or scrap it. This help?

Answer 5

It's called money! These pieces of equipment cannot be armed in any way. Your cost estimates are way off. Tornado aircraft are in the same approximate cost range of an F-15 fighter bomber.

Answer 6

Firstly, which country do you come from?

Secondly, money is the answer to your question. Why buy the second best weapon when your enemy has bought the best. So what they usually do is buy the best from Germany/Russia, after the enemy has purchased from US/Israel.

Answer 7

obsolete equipment on the market many helo's from Vietnam era and reasonably cheap

Answer 8

Maybe we need conscription, with pay bonuses for anyone who can bring a bit of ordnance with them!

Answer 9

Follow the money.

Answer 10

good question but its to do with them not having enough money to buy what they need