Can anyone explain the difference between the impersonal se and the passive se in spanish?

Question

When is each one used and how can I remember which one to choose? I'm in second year spanish at University and we're just learning this concept. I'm not required to take this class, I really do want to learn Spanish so if anyone knows the difference between the 2 in a way that I will remember how to use them in real life it woud be so helpful. ~Thanks~

sakura~ I know what you mean~if someone asked me about active and passive voice and impersonal and passive in english I wouldn't know how to explain it either. ~ I just know how to say it right.

Answer 1

I praise to know a lot of Spanish(Mexican Spanish) but you got me thinking in this one..OK let's see, "se, se and sé" not "sè" but "sé"
"se" by itself is a word which doesn't have a meaning, most specifically is a pronoun (reflexive pronoun)but acts also as a helper to many other words. reflexive pronoun ex: "fer se ve por el espejo"
"fer sees himself using the mirror" here if you don't add "se" the meaning would "fer see using the mirror".
As a passive voice: when discussing inanimate objects;, it is possible to indicate some sort of action without indicating who performed the action. Grammatically, such sentences are structured in the same way that sentences using reflexive verbs are but don't take them literally or you'll get confused. ex: "se venden frutas"= fruits sell themselves" when actually means that someone in there, in that location is selling fruits; English equivalents would be "fruits sold" or more specific "fruits for sale".
ex:Se prohibe fumar. (Smoking is prohibited.)Se vendió la computadora. (The computer was sold.).
As a substitute for le or les: When the indirect-object pronoun le or les is immediately followed by another pronoun that begins with an l, the le or les is changed to se, apparently as a way to avoid having two pronouns in a row beginning with the l sound. ex: No se lo voy a dar a ellos. (I'm not going to give it to them. or, Déselo a ella. (Give it to her.) Se lo dijo a él. (He/she told it to him.)
Impersonal se:In some sentences, se is used in an impersonal sense with singular verbs to indicate that people in general When se is used in this way, the sentence follows the same pattern as those in which the main verb is used reflexively, except that there is no subject to the sentence that is explicitly stated.

se: reflexive pronoun
se: pasive voice helper
se: impersonal
sé: singular first person, indicative form of "to know". Sé can also be the singular familiar imperative form of ser; in that case it means "you be."
Hopefully I gave a little push into understanding this word. if you need any further assistance feel free to ask.

Answer 2

Well this is quit a question. Very interesting one… I’ll try my best…

First of all the word “se” is not a verb. It’s a personal pronoun. Therefore, it should not be designate as impersonal nor passive, since only verbs can be catalogued this way (just like in English).

There’s a possibility that some authors refer to the word “se” as impersonal or passive, but this is grammatically incorrect and is not accepted by the “Real Academia de la Lengua Española” (the institution that improves or disapprove Spanish grammar rules) and is the equivalent of applying English grammar to Spanish;

Nevertheless, the verb “ser” cab be expressed en impersonal and passive (there’re 3 forms of impersonal: infinitive, past and gerund);

Now, the word “se” can be used in a passive or impersonal SENTENCES or structures (3 different impersonal forms) – which I suppose is probably your question; I will explain:

The same structure is applied to both passive and impersonal functions. Therefore, the word “se” is used in these as a personal pronoun, with the meaning [or expressing] giving or acknowledging used in third person singular or plural, female or male. In other words, as long as you use it for the third person you’re safe!

Impersonal: used when you refer to an empty subject, things in general or, in most cases, natural phenomenon, or when the subject in questions is not mentioned but inferred.

To constrict sentences with this meaning you must use the following combination:

Se + verb [presente indicativo 3d person] + predicado (complement)

Se abre la tierra (as in an earth quack)
Se escribe en el papel (as a habbit)

Passive: As in the english language it’s used to refer to instructions, resports or when we speak in the past. We use the same structure, but not with an empty subject.

Subject + se + verb [presente indicativo 3d person] + predicado (complement)

Él se bebe el agua después de comer (report)
María se vuelve loca cuando… (as a habbit)
Ellos se llaman por teléfono.. (a frecuent habbit)


Conclusions:

Impersonal: empty subject.
Passive: subject.
Similar meaning, but slightly different due to the fact that there’s a subject in passive.
Both use the same structure.
Stick to the 3 person (present).
The pronoun se, does not accept a preposition in these types of sentences.

I hope this works for you, if you need more info .please email me.

Regards and, I my best wishes on your training, I’m sure you will excel!!!

Answer 3

Here is the difference.

Impersonal se is like the English "You" or "One". Example:

¿Cómo se maneja el carro?

This means, "How do you drive a car?" or "How does one drive a car?" Pretend you are talking to John Smith. "How do you drive a car?" That doesn't mean, "John, how do YOU drive a car?" it means "How does somebody drive a car?"

So se can mean you as in "somebody" Another example.

¿Cómo se abre la puerta? Again, se means somebody, so this means "How do you open the door?", or "How does someone open the door?"


The passive se is the difference between saying "I ate the cake" (active voice) or "The cake was eaten." (passive voice).

In spanish in order to make a passive sentance, "something was done by something else", you use the se. For example.

Yo comé la torta. I ate the cake (active)
Se comió la torta. The cake was eaten (by somebody) (passive).

I can give you more help if you would like to email me. Ask me for my email.

Buena suerte!

Answer 4

That's a great question.

As a native spanish speaker, I can definetely tell you that when I was at school doing grammar analysis on sentences, "se", when not a verb ((Yo) Sé; verb Saber) is the biggest motherf***** word in the spanish language. It can be a lot of different stuff!!! (and we use it a lot).

Of course, as a native speaker I have no prob at all using the word "se", but analyzing it, well thats different... lol

Good luck!!!

Answer 5

Can't be bothered to explain it all, but there's a book by Mark Cholij called 'Practice in Spanish Grammar' which I found useful.

Answer 6

Gah, I wish I could help you.

When you are a native spanish speaker, you tend to not know crap about grammar, but just naturally know how to say things right.