Am I alone in thinking that the wave Islamic response to the Popes speech proved him right?

Question

The Pope quotes a source saying that islam is violent Nun is shot, a grenade is thrown at a school, and various threats are made. Doesw this sound non violent?

Answer 1

No this episode has proved Pope Benedict XVI is far from infallible. Talk about Chutzpah!

Famously, the then Cardinal Ratzinger once referred to Buddhism as a form of masturbation for the mind - a remark still repeated among deeply offended Buddhists more than a decade after he said it. Even his apology to Muslims at the weekend managed to bring Jews into the row.

The Irony and hypocrisy is the Catholic Church was also happily spreading the "true faith" by the sword at the same time this quote was made. And had been doing so for centuries, for example the 1st Crusade earlier in 1096.

Spreading the Faith by the Sword was the philosophy that created the Inquisition in which Muslims and Jews were killed and driven out of Catholic kingdoms in Spain and Portugal after the Christian re-conquests. Do note that Muslims did not have any exclusive copyright over the use of the term "infidel."

Isn't this a case of "the kettle calling the pot black".

Another irony, the empire of Roman Emperor Manuel Palaeologos was fatally weakened not by the Muslims, but two centuries earlier by the Pope and Catholic Church who instigated the 4th Crusade in 1204. But half way to the Holy Land, they had a change of plan, and decided to attack the Eastern Roman Empire, massacre Orthodox Christians with the sword and sack Constantinople instead of putting Muslims and Jews to the sword. This event is one of the three milestones in the demise of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire.

Another point the quote Pope Benedict chose is totally bogus and dubious. Emperor Manuel Palaeologos was fighting for the political survival of his pathetic empire, and was politically motivated in his statement. The "erudite" Emperor Manuel contrived a "debate" to suit his political argument. The learned "prominent" Persian poet and scholar Manuel is meant to have had this "debate" with is totally bogus and does not exist. Historical research knows of no such person. Why is the name of the Persian unknown for such a prominent poet and scholar in an otherwise such well recorded historical "debate"???

I am sure Pope Benedict, a supposedly learned scholar - whose previous job until last year was in charge of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith (the successor body to the Inquisition) when he was then known as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger - knew the quote was from a bogus "debate".

I in no way condone the response of Muslim fanatics and hotheads - burning churches, and murdering Nuns. They just bring shame and discredit on their faith and themselves. Ironically - although it is lost on these fanatic hotheads - through their actions they help to reinforce stereotypes about the very thing they have taken offence at - namely saying that Islam is a violent and intolerant religion.

I understand the quote was taken out of context in Pope Benedict's speech. But never the less, I think it is shocking that a man who is the Spiritual head of a community of over 1 Billion souls, chose this clearly inflammatory passage, when he could have chosen something far more conciliatory, constructive and uncontroversial to make the same point about faith and reason, and the incompatibility of violence and religion without giving any excuse that he had insulted Islam. Something from the Bible for example.

A man of Pope Benedict's experience must have known this quote was inflamatory when he chose to include it, and that one of the consequences would be to fuel a violent Muslim reaction. Any fool could have told him the same. Pope Benedict had the hindsight of the experience of the Danish Cartoons episode. I can only conclude he has been wilfully mischievous.

Pope Benedict has also now insulted the Jews, it has been reported. In another speech shortly after his infamous Regensburg Rally, he said "Christians worshipped the cross because of the folly of the Jews and ignorance of Pagans and Gentiles." In an address of March 16, 2006, Pope Benedict said Jews must Convert to Christianity in order to be Saved.

From The Guardian: "Even worse, in his Auschwitz address, he managed to argue in a long theological exposition that the real victims of the Holocaust were God and Christianity. As one commentator put it, he managed to claim that Jews were "themselves bit players - bystanders at their own extermination. The true victim was a metaphysical one." This theological treatise bears the same characteristics as last week's Regensburg lecture; put at its most charitable, they are too clever by half."

But don't worry Jews can take it. I promise you we will not burn down any churches or murder any nuns.

The Guardian says "In the perceived clash between the West and the Muslim world - the Pope seems to have abdicated his papal role of arbitrator, and taken up arms in a rerun of a medieval fantasy."

"An elderly Catholic nun has already been killed in Somalia, in retaliation for the Pope's remarks; churches have been attacked in the West Bank. How is this papal stupidity going to play out in countries such as Nigeria, where the tensions between Catholics and Muslims frequently flare into riots and death? Or other countries such as Pakistan, where Catholic communities are already beleaguered? Or the Muslim minorities in Catholic countries such as the Philippines - how comfortable do they feel this week?"

"Two lines of thought emerge from this mess. The first is that the Pope's personal authority has been irrevocably damaged; how now could he ever present himself as a figure of global moral authority and a peacemaker after this?"

"The second is a more disturbing possibility: namely, that the Catholic church could be failing - yet again - to deal with the challenge of modernity."

For a Spiritual leader, Pope Benedict appears to have intellectual knowledge without spiritual substance and wisdom. He has been irresponsible and insensitive, and looked foolish especially when people are killed as a result of his thoughtless actions and decisions. Not Infallible to me.

Pope John Paul tried to build bridges between faiths and peoples.

Pope Benedict, however, seems intent on burning them. Hasn't the world got enough hatred and troubles without further enflaming the fires in these violent times.

Answer 2

You are not alone in this assumption. Yes there are radicals in every religion that will act out violently at the slightest provocation, no matter how nonviolent a remark maybe. However, this tendency seems to be more predominate among Muslims than any other religion in our current time. As a popular adage goes : “Most Muslims are not terrorists, but invariably most terrorists are Muslim.”

One can only attribute this phenomenon, after reading the Qu’ran and the Hadith, to the fact that it is engrained into their theology. The fact that Muhammad, Islam’s premier and most supreme prophet, employed violence as a means of not only defense, but offensive coercion, would lead most sensible people to assume that a religion founded on his teachings would also be inclined to violence as a resolution to problems. Muhammad, using his power to order assassinations of figures who only derided him verbally, set the precedence for modern Muslims to respond violently when insulted, or when insults are foisted at their most revered prophet.

Truth is, as much as politically correct pundits and Islamic apologists try to deny it, violence in the name of Islam is not the result of just a mere radical fringe movement, but it is in essence an intrinsic part of their theology. The Pope was absolutely correct in his quotation in that Muhammad brought nothing new to religion but a theological justification for violence. Muhammad, through word and example, in essence moved violence from groups who misused religion for political ends, to being an integral part of a belief system. He codified religious war.

The Pope should never have apologized for preaching the truth. Christ did not come to this world to accommodate the world’s sensitivities; he came to illuminate truth. Let’s do the same, regardless of how offensive it maybe to some.

Answer 3

Fortunately you are not alone.
I followed an interview with an Islamic religious authority in Europe. He said that only some extremists are violent, but he refused to openly condemn their violence during the interview. This tells you exactly where they stand. Including those who pretend to be peaceful persons looking for a dialog with other religions.

Answer 4

It's getting scary. I came across this Bible passage the other night that sort of puts these times in context.

John 16:2 [Jesus says] They shall put you out of the synagogues, yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me

That is exactly what is happening now.

Answer 5

Of course not ! It is something like the islams saying:
"How the Pope dares to say that we are violent ! We will kill him and his followers with a slow and very painful death, and anybody else who says that we are violent, we will do the same !"
"Saying that we are violent is an imperdonable insult." "Don't they know that we are peaceful people ?"

Answer 6

Yup, the muslims proved the Pope correct.

Answer 7

Here is a link to the English translation of the Pope's controversial speech: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

With love in Christ.

Answer 8

It's like a "Wife Beating" situation.

When a man is a wife beater he is convincing to his friends and family that he is good and that his wife is a bad animal. Should the wife stand up and say, "In the past you hit me", then he will use this to fuel his anger. As we have seen, the Muslims in the Palestinian area's did lash out and attack. Sure, as always, the wife say's "Deeply Sorry", but he is an angry man is still beating her because he is plagued with the evil one. Violence is his sin.

This is because sin fuels itself with it's lust for its sin.

Answer 9

Yes they all fell for that one didn't they, burning effiges of the pope whilst chanting, how dare you call us violent.

Answer 10

I don't think the Pope used that quote to be right.
I think he used to to open up a discussion with other theologians...
I would love to watch a televised religious discussion with world theologians