What connection is there between reality and faith?

Question

When a person has beliefs that are formed as a result of evidence and reason, we can say that there is a causal relationship between reality and the person's beliefs about it - i.e. objective facts perceived through the senses and interpreted using reason, give rise to beliefs which are (hopefully) in accordance with reality.

What kind of connection is there between reality and faith? If faith means believing something despite the absence of satisfactory argument and/or evidence, then how can there be any such valid relationship? How can faith be anything other than irrational? How can it be claimed to be anything other than wishful or fearful thinking?

This is why rational people regard faith as worthless - because it has no apparent connection with reality. If you can demonstrate otherwise, I'd be interested to read about it.

RB: So faith *is* just wishful thinking then, is that what you're saying?

CatholicMOM: The fact that we don't know everything is beside the point - I'm asking people if they can justify faith by showing that there is any connection with the real world.

Dave: That's hope, not faith.

Suzany13: Didn't really answer the question. It's more of a metaphysical thing than merely "did something happen that I had faith would happen?"

beta_fishy: The expectation that the sun will rise in the morning, or that you will get paid at the end of the month, is based on experience. We have direct objective evidence that the sun has always risen before and that employers usually pay their employess. However, there has never been any evidence that a god exists, so the two things are not comparable.

arewethereyet: That's my point though - Your assumption that the chair will bear your weight is based on past experience, on real objective evidence, whereas there is no such evidence for a god.

processdude: Interesting response but you have rather a quirky definition of 'faith' there that doesn't accord with the kind of faith that I'm referring to.

TMAC: Then you're talking about beliefs based on evidence, which is entirely reasonable. Religious faith is a different beast.

rkc: No, there is a difference, which is that theories are designed to be testable whereas faith is not.

Answer 1

Reason and faith are important in both religion and science.

Scientists (or businessmen) must have extra-ordinary faith that their efforts, experiments, analysis will prove or discover a new area of knowledge (or income). If they have no faith, they will not proceed. They use their ability of reasoning and action to succeed, however, their faith drives them. This is true for artists, entrepreneurs, statesmen, and others.

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” – Albert Einstein

Believers must have extra-ordinary faith that their belief in God, their efforts in living a moral life, their growing in God’s word, and even sacrifice, will ultimately prove that they made the right choices when they are judged by God. If they have no faith, they will not do what they need to do, when the moment comes, in all the actions they take. Believers use reason, logic, rationality to live their lives, based on their beliefs.

Some live greatly, some live weakly. The greater that both faith and reason are used in either case, the greater the success will be.

If humanity were to become aware of all scientific knowledge, all the laws of the universe, they still would not have total knowledge about God. Even more reason would be required to know God.

God is truth. Science pursues the truth, which is knowledge of the universe and life.

“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect had intended us to forgo their use.” -- Galileo Galilei

I think you are too focused on the biblical accounts that people believe.

There are 2 groups of believers in religion, politics, science, whatever. There are the ones that were brought up one way and believe what they believe, because that is the culture or what they were taught. If this group is your focus, then igore whatever I wrote. The other group is the one that came to beliefs thru a process of reasoning. That is the group I like to talk to.

Answer 2

It is true that faith is defined by believing in something without any evidence or indisputable augument to support. I do see that faith is by definition irrational. Beliefs that are formed as a result of rational reason and physical evidence are not acutaly based on faith at all! Rather they are facts that someone has come to terms, someone else who see the physical evidence as indisputable.

But I think to say that faith is worthless or that there is no connection between faith and reality is hard to streach.

Look it backwards! For every single religion/faith their has killings war and death because of it or in deffence of it. To say that faith has no connection on reality is un-think able in this maner. It is no serect that faith has changed the world we live in of ages!

In some respect you can see the connection in the order you deposed. Real people living in reality saw some evidence (that is now lost or only found religious text that are taken on faith?) or had some vision or even made up some irrational explanation for why thing are the way they are or where we came from. The faith came from some where, logicly it can't come from faith? So the conncetion between reality and faith is in a chain.
reality,rational,irrational,rational,faith

Maybe? I don't know. It also seem like it should be in a circle.
reality,rational,irrational,faith,reality,rational,irrational,faith

But to say that it is worthless. The faith that one believes in teaches many different concepts that are just as abstract. Right and wrong, caring for others, wisdom and compassion. Everyone has a sence of what these are but only in the context of religion and faith are they spelled out. Whether the versions of basic morals are different from faith to faith; the point is you need something irrational to explane something irrational.

Answer 3

The same argument can be said about scientific theories of how the world came into existence. There is no absolute truth about how the world began, only theories. So, if a person believes one of these scientific theories as being the absolute truth, they are basing their decision on "faith." So, all of us have our own idea of how the world began, and in doing so, we are going by faith. If faith is irrational, then all beings are irrational.

PS Theories are as testable, just like the many events in the Bible are testable. But there is still not absolute proof that God exists or that the World came into existence from the Big Bang. We have to choose whether we will believe Science or in God and that is a step in faith.

Answer 4

When people use the word faith for a belief. It means they don't have any evidence or reason to back it up. If they had faith or a good logical reason then they wouldn't need faith.

If someone ( lets call him Joe) has faith in a proposition ( Lets call the Proposition X ). Someone else ( Say Jane ) could just as easily say "I have faith in the proposition that X is false".

If faith is a valid determinant of truth. Then since Joe has faith in X then X is more likely than not to be true.

But If faith is a valid determinant of truth since Jane has faith that X is false. Then it is also more likely than not that X is false.

Since it X cannot be both true and false then we can logically conclude that Faith is not a valid determinant of Truth.

So why do people use faith to justify their beliefs when logic tells us that logic is not a basis for determining truth. We can only conclude that people who base belief on faith are going against the use of logic and reason.

Hence People who base Belief on Faith are Irrational.

Answer 5

I tend to agree with Beta Fish for the most part... faith is so much apart of your life that you take it for granted... you don't even realize that you are living a life a faith. Just to add a few examples to Beta Fish; if you fly somewhere for example you have faith in the planes Captain that he knows enough about flying not to crash the plane. If you go out to eat you have faith that the cook is not a nut case who might poison your food. You have faith when you drive your car that the other drivers are going to stay on their side of the road. Sir do you have a wife or a girl friend? is she being faithful to you? how do you really know? do you spend every second of every day with her? according to your logic about faith you should distrust her shouldn't you? for there is no way that you could have tangible evidence for her loyalty without spending every second of everyday morning, noon and night with her... and even then you do not know what shes thinking... maybe shes thinking that she would rather be with someone else. Do you see Mr Icarus62 that you indeed utilize faith in every aspect of your life? Instead of trying to justify your choice to reject GOD you should study out a little more the subject of faith.... see if you can receive wisdom from this saying that someone very wise once said, "Be careful what you believe and be equally careful as to what you don't believe.
~GOD BLESS YOU AND LEAD YOU INTO ALL TRUTH~

Answer 6

The simplest cells in the human body are more complex than the entire infrastructure of New York City, the amino acids used as building block for life have to be put together in a very specific way and using information to organize them. If gravity was changed by one ten-thousands of one percent you could not have life on earth. Earth is in the precise place in the universe for us to study the universe.

You think all of this and the thousands of other examples happened by accident or trial and error over vast periods of time.

You folks think Christians live by faith, I do not have enough faith to believe your science.

I believe God created it, that makes sense. That is the only reasonable explanation. I will not call it intelligent design, it was God , God is intelligent but I will not insinuate that it was anything other than God.

Answer 7

Your logic is severly flawed.

Everything a person does in life, he does because of faith. You get up in the morning and you have faith that the sun will come up. You work hard because you have faith you will be paid. You show love because you have faith that love will be returned to you. There are so many aspects of your life that you do based solely on faith.

Religious people have taken this same faith that you utilize, and applied it to the spiritual realm of their lives more effectively than you have. They have seen the joy and happiness that their beliefs and practices bring to themselves and to others. There is a very tangible, real result to their faith. That is the connection to reality.

Simply because you don't understand something, don't write it off. That just makes you look ignorant.

Response: Simply because you are basing your actions on past experiences does not mean that they are not driven by faith. I have had prayers answered in the past. Therefore I pray, based on my past experiences. There is no difference. You simply don't like the evidence so you're dismissing it.

Answer 8

Okay, I'll demonstrate faith for you.

You are sitting in a chair. You've never sat in this chair before, but it is a regular looking chair. Still, how do you know you won't fall? Do you have statistical background on the maker of this chair? Have you examined the scientific data on the number of chairs that have fallen apart in the past? No, you just know that it's a chair and in the past when you sat down in a chair, it held you up.

You might be a little wary of sitting down the first time, having never actually sat in that particular chair; but over a period of years, you come to know that chair will hold you up. In fact, rather than gingerly sitting down you now just plop down in it, confident it will hold you up. You have FAITH in that chair.

I know, a silly analogy, but it's still the truth. Faith is something that comes with time and use, not scientific data.

Answer 9

Faith IS irrational. But that fact doesn't make it worthless. Believing you're doing the right thing, even when all your efforts seem to come to nothing, is faith. But sometimes, you can't hope to accomplish a really hard long-term task, without faith.

Answer 10

As children, we are often raised in a religious faith. As adults, we must make a reasoned decision whether to continue to adhere to that faith or to seek additional answers.

Faith often conflicts with reason, and we must each decide whether a faith that demands that we ignore reality is worth our investment.

Some people decide that the reality of this world is "less real" than the promise of another. That is their reasoned decision.