The best defense for the existence of God is that the universe itself exists, and matter needs a point of origin. Atheists would then ask “Who created God?”. When we respond “God always was.”, they come back and say “Why can’t we say that the universe always was?” Here’s my rebuttal: Consider the chair that you’re sitting on. It’s mass needed a point of origin, but what about the concept, or the ‘form’ of the chair? Before the first chair was built, you still had the possibility, or the form of the chair. The form always was, and always will be, but not the physical actuality. Of all the infinite forms, Good and Evil are the most significant. God IS good, and the Devil IS evil. They were the two original minds/beings, and they needed this universe and people to make choices, so they cooperated. A few moments later … BANG … there we were. God and the Devil were the totality of the forms/concepts of Good and Evil, so they don’t need a point of origin, unlike physical reality.
2006-09-19 15:43:56 · 24 answers · asked by Michael F 3 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
This is a nice fairy tale, but it fails badly as a logical argument.
It doesn't exclude the nearly infinite number of alternatives in any way. Nor does it present any logical reason that this is the reason reality exists.
Honestly, I have heard much better arguments for the existence of the easter bunny.
2006-09-19 15:57:05 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
It is possible that the "form" always existed, and Plato would agree with your on this, but most atheists, (because they are empiricists) would reject this because they don't believe in a priori knowledge. They'd say that which is knowable about reality is is only knowable through sense experiece. The start of your argument though is pretty good concerning origin, and you can base it on empirical observations. Here's how:
1.) The first law of thermodynamics says that matter and energy cannot make more matter and energy
2.) The second law of thermodynamics says that entropy moves from a higher state to a lower state. (Things don't get more complex, they get simpler.) Entropy can increase temporarily, but universally is decreasing
3.) Matter still exists
4.) If the universe always existed then matter would not exist because it would have decayed into energy an eternity ago.
5.) If Matter still exists, then the universe has not always existed.
6.) If the universe has not always existed, then it has an origin.
7.) Matter and Energy didn't create the universe because matter and energy cannot create matter and energy
8.) Therefore, the universe was created by something external to the universe.
2006-09-22 09:28:06 · answer #2 · answered by The1andOnlyMule 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Are you really going to drag out this outdated Aristotelian essence argument?
1. There is no such thing as an essence. The chair is also wood. The wood is also cellulose. The cellulose is also organic chemical compounds. There is no essence or form. An idea does not make something. Matter/energy exists without the knowledge of the matter/energy.
2. Good and evil do not exist. There is nothing that is inherently good; it is only helpful for some person or object. Evil likewise does not exist. It is simply harmful to some person or object. To us a comet crashing into Jupiter is not seen as evil, but if somehow that comet destroyed all life on the planet, they would not likely think it was neutral.
This essence argument is used by the Catholics and similar denominations to describe the "transubstantiation" that turns bread and wine into the body & blood of Christ. If you were to check the chemistry, it would still be bread & wine, but if you believe an essence exists beyond the physical stuff, then the essence changes into body & blood. This essence argument has been abandoned in all aspects of philosophy except for the religious people who need some explanation for a miracle they have no evidence for.
2006-09-19 15:59:06 · answer #3 · answered by NHBaritone 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Well, the devil and God don't cooperate...nor did they need this universe and people to make choices.
The devil is not on an equal plane with God. God created him. God does not need him, nor does God need anything. He is complete in and of himself. He created because he is a creator--not to fill a need for something that he lacked.
Instead, you could just say to atheists that this universe has an origin...and ask them, then, what was here before it, and how something could arise from nothing (or what may be called "potentiality"). If there is potential, from where does it arise?
2006-09-19 15:50:43 · answer #4 · answered by Gestalt 6 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Is my chair evil? stable and evil are no longer mandatory residences of the universe yet fairly recommendations invented with the aid of human beings to maximise excitement and shrink soreness. Your argument would not furnish an answer to the unique question. additionally, are you a physics grad pupil majoring in astrophysics with a concentration in cosmology? If no longer, then i would not propose being so specific of you recommendations relating to Physics. Physics says no longer something approximately what passed off earlier the vast bang (a minimum of the examined theories do no longer), and as such, you are able to no longer make the perception that physics says that the universe shouldn't exist. It would not say that. that concept is an extrapolation of contemporary recommendations, and that i might go away that to the human beings who study physics for a residing. to boot, varieties are no longer continuously. they arrive into being via human ingenuity and mind's eye. the belief of a television did no longer exist until eventually somebody thought approximately it.
2016-10-15 04:50:00 · answer #5 · answered by ? 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Nope. Sorry. if God is immaterial, there is no vessel for his consciousness. If he is material he must have a begining since nothing comes from nothing. Good and Evil are not life forms, they are descriptions. I've never heard an atheist suggest that the universe always was.
wow... I'm not even an atheist and I don't buy this one!
2006-09-19 15:52:19 · answer #6 · answered by ZombieTrix 2012 6 · 1⤊ 1⤋
I see the beautiful beginning to an open mind.
I do believe in the Creator and the big bang of creation, but the devil only exists in the hearts and imaginations of all humans.
Good start though.
Live Long and Live Well..............
2006-09-19 16:10:45 · answer #7 · answered by illuminostic_1 3 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Don't you need people to have the concept of forms? especially good and evil?
Help! How do I get off the circular reasoning? I'm getting dizzy!
Is it sort of like the concept of pure stupidity? It alwlays had the potential to exist, but then you came along and made it a reality?
2006-09-19 15:48:23 · answer #8 · answered by Devil'sadvocate 3 · 2⤊ 1⤋
Think about it for a few more years, and see what you come up with then.
I think you're thoroughly wrong, and that the argument doesn't make sense - but you're at least trying to address the right objections to believers' claims, and you understand why those claims aren't at all convincing to atheists. I encourage you to keep thinking - either you'll come to agree with my way of thinking, or you'll come up with something better. Either way we win.
2006-09-19 16:00:20 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
so you then admit that the concept of good (god) and evil (satan) are just ideas. concepts, forms that people make them take to help understand there life
2006-09-19 15:57:24 · answer #10 · answered by crl_hein 5 · 0⤊ 1⤋