Ok, let's try this again?

Question

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AjF1gayvpBXwgo9HPHDJoDPsy6IX?qid=20060917230124AABBHFf
I asked this question last night. Explain it to me again, Christians. Maybe I'm slow, but I really don't get it. If we have free will, then no one should be able to accuratly predict what all of us are going to do all of the time. If God has a Divine Plan for us and he knows everything that we are going to do and he knows it before we're even born, then we are puppets. Free will and predestination, as far as I can see, can not coexist. If you can resolve this in plain english, without doublespeak, please let me know.

Answer 1

These O.T. scriptures support the idea of free will:

Dt.30:19
I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life.

Joshua 24:15
Choose you this day whom ye will serve.... But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

These scriptures support pre-destiny:

Acts 13:48
And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom.8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom.9:11-22
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.

Eph.1:4-5
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

2 Th.2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

2 Tim.1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Jude 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation.

The problem, as I see it, is the continual insistance by these neophites that Christians are not subject to the principles of the O.T., yet they embrace concepts like free will and the 10 Commandments. At the same time, they deny N.T. principles like pre-destiny.

This is HypoChristianity at it's finest.

They want the best of both philosophies, because both are flawed. They can accept free will, but not the idea that they have to kill their children for idiotic ideas as the O.T. commands. By the same token, they accept that a pathological liar (Jesus) died for their sins so they can go to Heaven, but reject N.T. concepts like pre-destiny and the idea that women are inferior to men (read Pauls works).

It's quite simple to understand really. The Bible supports pre-destiny over free will. Yet, if they believe in pre-destiny, then they have to accept that their afterlife is beyond their control. They become helpless and impudent. If they choose to believe the O.T. philosophy of free will (even though it no longer applies to them) they can feel empowered in their decision to follow an ideology that they cannot possibly live by.

-SD-

Answer 2

No where in the Bible does it say that God has a Divine Plan for every human in particular. Jehovah has a plan for the Earth, that he will restore it to Paradise, the way it was meant to be.
As for free will, all of God's creations have this gift. Jehovah knows us better than we know ourselves, therefore, He can accurately predict what we will do. That is not predestination, it is evidence of how much our Creator loves us.
When God put Adam and Eve in Eden, he intended them to live in perfection forever. They surprised and grieved him when they sinned, but they were not set up to do so, and neither are we.

Answer 3

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Answer 4

That's exactly right, except NOT all of us have free will.

Some are predestined.

The best example I can give would be Homosexuals. It is now starting to clearly be shown that DNA makes them that way.

If DNA is God's plan for use, then God makes Savants (people who can look at a page of numbers for 1 second and provide an answer that a computer would take 5 minutes to program and digets), Blind, Deaf, Mutes and even homosexulas.

These are people who have LIMTED SAY in what they can do in life, do to predesintation.

Homosexuals, however, have the same free will as hetrosexuals. To act on their impluses or not to act.

That is free will.

God and the Angeles come to everyone. They make you turn left even though you originally wanted to go right. The question is, do you SEE what they wanted you to see and do you ACT.

Your greatest destiny could be right in front of your face, it is up to YOUR free will to act or not to act.

God wants to see how smart or dumb you are.

A boy at a party sees a girl almost naked on a bed, passed out from booze or drugs. Does he pull her panties down and take her, to get his rocks off or does he cover her and sit on the chair next to her and protect her all night long.

His choice.

Free will.

Is she is sister or just someone to have his jollys with who won't remember a thing in the morning.

You're avatar says you are a girl.

What would you want a man to do if you were that girl!

Protect you or take advantage of you!

Answer 5

Ok I dont know about what "Divine Plan" you are talking about. All I know is God knows everything. As far as free will like you are free to acknowledge Him or not too. He will not force Himself on you. That is what I was taught.You can do whatever you want He just knows it. I hope that helps...yet I will tell you one other thing I know no matter if you believe in God or not right now. One day will come that whoever does and whoever doesnt will confess that He is the one true living God.

Answer 6

There is no doubt that this is a difficult question that even Christians struggle with. I'm not sure I have an answer that you can understand, but I'll give it a shot.

First, what do we mean by predestination? According to RC Sproul, it means that in the end, it is God that decides if we go to Heaven or Hell. Some belief that He makes this decision based on His foreknowledge. God looks down the tunnel of time and selects those who select Him. A Reformed view is that God selects those whom He selects based completely on His will. This position holds that God chooses and those whom He chooses He calls to Himself to belief. Whichever position a believer holds, it is evident from the reading of Scripture that there is this thing called predestination, adn that not all are called to God for salvation.

That brings us to the opposite side of the equation, which is not Free Will, but instead Reprobation. Does God create and cause people specifically to go to Hell? That is a valid question. There is a position called Hyper-Calvinism that believes that God actively stirs up evil in Man's hearts, preventing him from coming to God. It is worth noting that this position is considered "more calvinistic than Calvin". From a reformed perspective, predestination is a passing over of some. We are in our natural state, sinful and bound for Hell. God in His love selects some out of the stream of humanity headed for the Abyss and calls them to Himself. God does not harden the heart of Man, it is already hard.

So what does this have to do with Free Will? Are we just puppets? Let us again define terms. What is Free Will? According to Johnathan Edwards, Free Will is "that by which the the mind chooses". Free Will means that we have the freedom to choose what we desire. We do not, however, have the freedom to chose that which we do not desire. That is a critical point, hold onto that. God does not force us to do anything, but He does change our desires, so that we can chose Him.

I heard it explained once this way. Prior to the Fall, Man had the Free Will and the desire to "sin" or "not sin". We chose to "sin". At that point we lost the desire to chose "not to sin". As Edwards put it, we kept our natural freedom to make choices, but lost our moral freedom, the inclination and desire to be righteous beofer God. Since we are in this state, we have no desire for God and cannot choose "not to sin". God then changes our hearts and gives us the ability to desire "not to sin". This is called Regeneration. When we chose "not to sin", we become Christians. At this time we have the desire for "not to sin" as well as for "sin", and sometimes we chose "sin".

In the end, we decide our choices. God does not. If He did, He would be coercing us and He does not do that. What He does, through Predestination, is give us the ability to chose Him. We still retain our Free Will, so they do co-exist. I realize this is very difficult to understand and if I have not explained it very well, my apologies. Perhaps some of the references below could help if you are still looking for an answer.

Answer 7

I realize this presents an apparent paradox and it may very well be. I'm not entirely sure how/if God involves himself directly in our actions which would seemingly deny us free will but I know it is possible for God to know everything our future holds without determining it Himself.

The logical problem you are running into is temporal. You're thinking of a God fixed in the limits of time and space the same as we are. But the Bible tells us that God is the Alpha and Omega, and stretches from everlasting to everlasting. This wording implies that God is not confined by time as we are. He exists outside of what we know as time and space. So if you can take a step back outside of all dimensions of the universe including time, you could very well be able to see the future and know all that will happen. But then you have to ask yourself, if God knows whats going to happen does that really mean He determined it to happen? Yes you are a slave to your destiny but it is a destiny that you chose, are choosing, and will choose without the direct influence of God.

Recap. God knows the future. That future is real but was created not by God's sole influence but by yours as well. Thus He knows your ultimate destiny but it is the destiny that you choose.

That turned out a lot wordier than I intended but I hope it was clear enough.

Answer 8

If gods got a plan for all of us and he knows the future then there cannot be a thing such as free will, that is correct. He must be a sadistic bastard if he created hell and people to go there. Great plan dude!

Answer 9

Free will, according to what I have been taught by people I trust to know the Word of God, was given as a gift. God wants us to choose to obey Him, He wants us to choose to love Him and follow His will for our lives. Forced love or obedience is not sincere and God wants us to sincerely follow Him. As far as predestination, not all Christians believe the same way about this. I know Christians who are sincere in their faith and do not believe in predestination. I also know many sincere Christians who do. I don't think it's important to know, for sure, whether there is or isn't predestination. I think the important thing is that we do not become judgemental of those who believe differently than we do.

Answer 10

We have the choice to love God & do His will or not, and God can see into the future, and knows what kind of choices we will be making; but it is not that we are puppets, in that He has already made them for us, just that He knows everything.
God could have made us hard-wired to automatically love Him & do His will...but if you had a spouse like that--who automatically ALWAYS put their own needs aside, and did YOUR will, and you knew this is just the way they are, and had no choice to be any other way: would you feel loved?
I believe God craves relationships, and wants ot be loved by something other than robots, who are programed to do His will.

Answer 11

You do have free will. You get told something right and wrong, then you have the free will to chose between the two.

Deuteronomy 30:19: I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

We're not puppets. God knows His plan for our lives and he'll know if your gonna follow it. He just don't force you to chose his way. He'll suggest it but you don't have to if you don't want to. There's your free will.