Was the pope right?

Question

The pope made comments recently to the effect that many Islamists, too many, adhere to a philosophy of violence, hate and destruction. In response, Islamists throughout the middle east threatened the pope and burned Christian churches, most of which weren't even Catholic. Then they demanded an apology from the pope.

Aren't these Islamists just proving the pope's point? And why should he apologize for saying something that these Islamists are demonstrating has validity?

To rab2344: You are not correct at any point in your argument. No one can know the outcome of any particular conflict. And the pope's action does not need to lead to violence on the part of certain Islamists. If the Islamists had peacefully rebuked the pope without resorting to violence it seems to me that it would not only be more readily received by the world but would also humiliate the pope by demonstrating that what he quoted was incorrect.

By choosing violence they have already lost.

To aboosait: Your argument was well wrtten and I agreed with much of it. Unfortunately you let your political bias leak through and made for a weak ending. Too bad. Your ending made me question the rest of what you wrote.

Answer 1

Choosing a quote from Manuel II Paleologos, not the most intelligent of the Byzantine rulers, was somewhat disingenuous, especially on the eve of a visit to Turkey. He could have found more effective quotes and closer to home. Perhaps it was his unique tribute to Oriana Fallaci.

Perhaps.

The Muslim world with two of its countries---Iraq and Afghanistan-- directly occupied by Western troops does not need to be reminded of the language of the Crusades. In a neo-liberal world suffering from environmental degradation, poverty, hunger, repression, a 'planet of slums' (in the graphic phrase of Mike Davis), the Pope chooses to insult the founder of a rival faith.

The reaction in the Muslim world was predictable, but depressingly insufficient. Islamic civilization cannot be reduced to the power of the sword. It was the vital bridge between the Ancient world and the European Renaissance. It was the Catholic Church that declared War on Islam in the Iberian Peninsula and Sicily. Mass expulsions, killings, forced conversions and a vicious Inquisition to police the cleansed Europe and the reformist Protestant enemy.

The fury against 'heretics' led to the burning of Cathar villages in Southern France. Jews and Protestants alike were granted refuge by the Ottoman Empire, a refuge they would have been denied had Istanbul remained Constantinople. 'Slaves, obey your human masters.For Christ is the real master you serve' said Paul (Colossians 3: 22-24) in establishing a collaborationist tradition which fell on its knees before wealth and power and which reached its apogee during the Second World War where the leadership of the Church collaborated with fascism and did not speak up against the judeocide or the butchery on the Eastern Front. Islam does not need pacifist lessons from this Church.

Violence was and is not the prerogative of any single religion as the continuing Israeli occupation of Palestine demonstrates. During the Cold War the Vatican, with rare exceptions, supported the imperial wars. Both sides were blessed during the First and Second World wars; the US Cardinal Spellman was a leading warrior in the battles to destroy Communism during the Korean and Vietnam wars. The Vatican later punished the liberation theologists and peasant-priests in Latin America. Some were excommunicated.

Not all Christians joined in the crusades old and new. When Pope Urban launched the crusades the Norman king of Sicily refused to send troops in which Sicilian Muslims would be compelled to fight against Muslims in the East. His son, Roger II, refused to back the Second Crusade. In doing so they showed more courage than the leaders of contemporary Italy, who are only too willing to join the imperial crusades against the Muslim world.

'To make sure of being right in all things', said the founder of the Jesuits, Ignatius Loyola, 'we ought always to hold to the principle that the white I see I should believe to be black if the hierarchical church were so to rule.'

Today most Catholic prelates in the West (including the Bavarian in the Vatican) and politicians of Centre-Left/Right worship the real Pope who lives in the White House and tells them when black is white.

Additional details:

Hi, BUD............ I feel it is "your political bias" preventing you from accepting my concluding remarks.

Answer 2

You make a very good point in that those who committed the atrocities did validate what the pope said. It's funny that the pope was quoting a long dead emporer. It seems that radical Islamists aren't much different now than 400 years ago.

Not all Muslims are like that, just like not all Christians go aorund bombing abortion clinics. It is the actions of the crazy few that taint all.

Answer 3

Just look at their responses since the statement has been made, totally unreal. The proof is in the puddin'. I'm not going to go blow up somebody else's church because something negative was said about Christianity. That type of thing is done all the time. If you know who you are, and know why you believe what you believe, what does it matter what the Pope or anyone else says? Why get upset about it? In Christianity we're suppose to let the Lord fight our battles and let Him deal with those type of people. Why don't they let mohammad, allah, or whoever fight for theirs? If it's possible. But oh, I forgot the Muslims have to defend and fight...by any means necessary?!

Answer 4

Muslims are WAY oversensitive, especially considerng their penchant for violence and their closed minded attitude. The Pope was most definitely right about them. The world needs to deal with their threat. But it won't. It is likely that Islam is the false church mentioned in Revelations. Only Messiah can stop them.

Answer 5

Every religion believes they are the one true religion and thus the pope stated what for him was a fact. Was he right? Well I believe in freedom of speech, even if it means that my feelings/beliefs are put on the spot, so in reality, it does not matter if I agree or disagree with him.

Answer 6

What he said was 100% true, and also misquoted in the press. He was refering to older statements. They did prove how smoe Islamist are out of control simply based on the recent church bombings and burning in effagy.

Answer 7

Now the pope says he is upset, should he apologize for his remarks on Islam?
Yes 59% 60716 votes
No 41% 42460 votes
Total: 103176 votes http://edition.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/27419.exclude.html

Answer 8

Yep, the Muslims have proven by their actions that the Pope's statements were really true!

Anybody with half a brain can see that.

Answer 9

I think the pope made a mistake when he said they were violent but he did instantly apologise saying that he doesn't really think that. But yes you are right, by doing this violent acts they are proving they are violent by nature.

Answer 10

You don't need too look far, to see he is right. History also proves that it has not changed, that was his point.


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