Do you agree with me about illegal immigration?

Question

Preface: Im Hispanic. Our country already has too many freaking people in it; adding still MORE people will just strain systems and dilute resources that much more. Clearly we cannot allow anyone in the world who wants to come here do so. Every sane person will agree to that. But for some reason if you replace the word "anyone" with "Mexican" millions of people including almost all latinos (go figure) suddenly lose their minds and decide this country can handle any influx imaginable. Actually, *hint hint* they're not doing any analysis, they're just spouting bullshiat based on emotion and/or old-fashioned Sesame Street caliber tribalism. We don't owe non-citizens anything. I'll repeat that. We don't owe non-citizens anything. Helping out non-citizens is one of those "nice to do" things. It's not something you do if it hurts real citizens. A massive increase in competition for resources versus a much smaller increase in those resources = hurting real citizens, lower standard of living.

If you break a law and don't hurt anybody, the punishment can't be that great.But if you're breaking laws and that affects other negatively, e.g. those navigating the proper immigration channels, then the punishment should be steeper, like, I don't know, no FEDERAL money for education. Jeebus, there's no steaming bullshiat imaginable that California won't entertain.

I have to think the root cause of 99% of the country's problems is this: politicians put votes above all else. This means the popularity of issues takes precedence over the impact and net value of issues. So any proposition that will negatively impact the country will still go forward (or equivalently, fail to be opposed, same diff) so long as it's popular. This, my friends, is horse shiat.
The only way to salvage our little 200-yr old project country is ACCOUNTABILITY.

Answer 1

I'd say you are on the right track.

Answer 2

You sound like you're very young and while that's fine, it seems that young people haven't learned much history. Well, here's a history lesson from an "old timer".
A long time ago, Europeans came to the wilderness of the new world (now USA). They wanted to create a new country free of tyranny, blah, blah, blah. Now maybe in the beginning these newcomers and the Indians(remember them) got along until the newcomers(not all) decided they wanted ALL the land. Indians had no concept of owning land. Some were nomadic and some were not. What happened to the Indians? They fought with all their might not to be annihilated by "Americans." Then they were given smallpox infested blankets. Do you think that was an accident? One cruel thing after another was done to them.
Now maybe it's the "Americans" turn.
In order for YOU to be a citizen, someone in your family had to have the COURAGE to come here. You should be thankful that you're an American citizen. My ancestors, Irish and Italian came here for a better life. They worked very hard and were discriminated against because of language(the Italians). They were called names, told to go back where they came from.
That attitude seems to say: I got mine, but I'll do everything I can to stop you from getting yours.
There used to be a saying that was meant to put the irish down. The word was NINA. It stood for: NO IRISH NEED APPLY. I'm sure it could have meant NO ITALIANS NEED APPLY. No decent jobs, no decent housing.
This nastiness came from many sources including the people of the same nationality who had come before them.
Every DECENT person deserves to have a good life. Every little child deserves to live in a decent place with food to eat, schools to go to without being subjected to harassment and bullying.
By the way, if you're going to use the word bull____, spell it right.

Answer 3

I agree with You your Forget one Thing Thought They Have Kids Here And The Kids Are Then Americans So They Cry When They get Caught And Then They Cry There Child Is A Citizen and they Should Be able to Stay Because of That. That Is Still Wrong

Answer 4

Most of these folks are coming to work. Many of these jobs will go unfilled. I live close to a meat packing plant. Any citizen with a good employment record can go there and get a job today. Yet, 1/2 of the workforce is projected to be illegal. Illegal immigrants can not receive welfare or social security.
I suggest a functional guest worker plan that addresses the need for workers, tracks the workers and sends them home when the job is completed.
As a worker in the health care industry, I see the negative effect on the system as we have to provide health care to these workers.
I am told the going price for a fake set of documents is about $600.00.
I have yet to see any news related to our authorities closing down these illegal document operations.

Answer 5

You said, "I have to think the root cause of 99% of the country's problems is this: politicians put votes above all else. "

Which is EXACTLY why Bush SUDDENLY made this an issue. For votes, and for deflection.

Read the words on the Statue of liberty.

Mexico, in many respects, is almost still a 3rd world country. It struggles with very corrupt government and police, and most of it's people are very poor. The folks who are coming here don't have the money to feed their families, nevermind immigration costs.

I'm not saying throw the border open, but I am saying to keep this in proper perspective. With the threat of Islamic Fundamentalism over our heads, it's incredibly stupid to make such a big deal over the Mexicans.

We let Bush diminish OUR civil rights, liberties, right to do process (under certain conditions), and protections against unfair treatment by our own government by passing the mis-named Patriot Act...we invade a country under false pretense...our government is spying on us (illegally)...Islamic Fundamentalists still train in our flight schools...and we are worried about poor Mexicans trying to feed their families all of a sudden?

Mexicans are NOT hurting our standard of living. Mega-corporations with their "profit at the expense of the worker", and with Republican political backing, are hurting our standard of living.

While I agree that we do not necessarily "owe non-citizens anything", our government makes it's own decisions on who it wants to spend OUR tax money on...and spends it VERY freely. We're in Iraq, and threatening Iran, but OUR TAX MONEY and past policy CREATED both regimes, and put them in power.

Frankly, I'd rather help the Mexicans.

Answer 6

Well first I would like to commend you on your very intelligent and eloquent wording.I not only agree with your stance but think that we need to stop exporting American jobs abroad(Clinton's NAFTA).This country is absolutely saturated in its most densely populated areas.The fact of the matter is that many who come here now do so illegally and only to capitalize on our system.It used to be the norm that people came to the US to make a better life and stay here making the country stronger.Now most who come here don't even pay taxes,open savings accounts or even plan to stay here sending their illegal earning home to their families.I think the US should shut its doors,clean some house and require much more from immigrants

Answer 7

Very nicely articulated argument. I agree with you one hundred percent.

For those who want to make that tired old, unsupported "we're all immigrants" argument--think again. There are a large majority of Americans who can claim Native American Indian ancestry, myself included. So that claim holds no water.

Secondly, two hundred plus years ago, this country was wide open space. Immigration has been a part of the United States of America since her inception. In the first years in the life of this new country, immigration was needed to bring skills and new blood into our country. However, unchecked immigration could not continue forever. Immigrants began entering the United States through Ellis Island in 1892. Shortly after that, our forefathers, who foresaw the possibility that America would one day become that overburdened lifeboat, put into place a system of checks and balances which would allow a sensible monitoring of how many people were allowed to climb into the lifeboat.

If this system seems unfair to you, then you should work to change the immigration laws. But the laws which are in place now must be obeyed. This should be patently obvious to those who are seeking a life in the United States.

There are at this time, 6,526,491,030 people in the world. Of that number, it has been estimated that at least 300,000,000 of them would emigrate to the United States of America if given the opportunity. Could we withstand an incursion of that number? We absolutely could not. That is why we have immigration LAWS.

One argument I hear from the open borders crowd is that the United States, being a country of abundant resources, should be happy to open their arms, and their pocketbooks, to those from south of the Mexico/United States border because the lives of the citizens of Mexico are fraught with poverty and want. There are many people in the world whose lives are much more difficult than those of the citizens of Mexico. Many people in other countries face a life time of poverty, starvation, war, sickness and early death. If the open borders activists are so concerned with those in search of a better life being allowed into the United States, why are they not out there, fighting for unauthorized entry into the United States for these people? Why are only Mexican illegal immigrants the recipients of their altruistic compassion? Doesn't that seem rather RACIST to you? It does to me.

Why is mainstream America so appalled? Non-citizens are not entitled to Civil Rights. Human Rights, they have been given, as evidenced by the TEN AND ONE HALF BILLION DOLLARS that California taxpayers alone shell out every year in support of social programs, education, medical care, and incarceration costs for illegal immigrants.

Some open border advocates wonder why they don’t see the same outrage directed toward illegal aliens of other ethnicities. The outrage is there. However, the majority of other illegal aliens entering the United States are more concerned with staying under the radar. They are not engaging in the deliberate, shameless, in-your-face tactics of the Mexican illegal aliens and their socialist supporters, whose very presence in the United States poses untold problems and hardships for other racial groups within the United States.

These illegals are not doing the "jobs Americans won't do." There is no such thing as a "job Americans won't do" if they are paid a living wage to do it. Open border advocates should be ashamed of themselves for insisting that Mexico's citizens come to America to work as slaves for slave wages. Why don't they go down to Mexico and help these people in their struggle for fair wages and a decent life? You have to ask yourself, just how are the people who are promoting illegal immigration benefiting from the influx of illegal aliens into this country?

Answer 8

Well good for you, I applaud you as an american hispanic for stepping forward and taking issue on this topic. We don't 'owe' Mexico or any other country, for that matter, one thin dime, in many cases we've forgiven so much of their debt, it's not even funny anymore.

We can and probably should try to help, but definitely not in ways that are going to end up tearing down our country, long-term. Being able to help others is a capacity that depends on first being able to help yourself. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be in the 'help' business to begin with. Otherwise, everyone involved ends up sitting around, looking at that last can of corn on the shelf, going 'well, NOW what!?!?!?' lol

Mexico, given all the money we've literally dumped into it over the years, should have gold-plated streets by now. But, since the money went somewhere ELSE besides into their necessary infrastructure, and hospitals and schools and other needed things, they're knocking on our door, make that banging on our door, DEMANDING things. It's childish, and unreasoned. We passed the Age Of Reason a long time ago. There's 2 ways the world can go in the 21st century, either up, or down. Global population now sums up at about 6.6 billion people, a third of which really don't have a single prayer in the world, that is, unless their countries' governments let go of the Old Ways, and start to build their nations with much careful planning and forethought, and bury the hatchet with their respective neighbors.
In peace, many things can flourish. When there's war, the main thing that happens is that people die. People keep praying for miracles instead of using the 'miracles' attached to each of their shoulders to make better circumstances come about. Brick by brick, stone by stone, building by building, it's possible to make something from literally nothing but the rock in the earth. Construction doesn't even have to cost that much, the native americans built long-lasting(still standing today, in some cases)
homes out of nothing but adobe clay, and a couple logs over the top to help keep the rain out. The modern analogue of that is rammed-earth walls, literally taking dirt from the ground and compacting the hell out of it. I'm sure there's plenty of dirt in countries all over the world, what's lacking is the initiative, not the knowledge or money etc. They managed to build the pyramids SOMEhow...so what's the modern day dysfunction? The perception that they can get money out of OUR country to finance their future. Thank your local banker for THAT one...as well as some disingenuous glad-handing starry eyed politicians
who don't have callus ONE on their hands, and are quite liberal with the ol' tax dollar, at the end of the day.

I think we SHOULD have foreign aid, but it should be carefully structured, and even more carefully watched to ensure that it's continuance is 'outcome based'. No tikee, no money, as it were.
That's where disinterested 3rd party oversight is a great idea.
Our country's been played for billions and trillions, banks have sweet-talked people right back onto the street and out of their homes, or well on their way, at any rate, to my mind there's some things that are MORE important than growth, like livability
and sustainability. Uncontrolled immigration will eventually render parts of our country unlivable, unfit to live in. There's a REASON people move out of big cities, it's a mental thing. The blueprint for our minds was evolved LONG before we ever saw 100 million people in this world, let alone 1 billion, or today's 6.6 billion. That's why people go kooky in big cities, they don't have enough ROOM. Inviting half of Mexico to move to the United States in the name of 'growth' is, to say the least, a badly flawed concept.
Curb your politician...

Answer 9

Through out history people have had your same argument. Historically USA has hated every group of immigrants that come here. For many decades we called Italians "Wop's". Did you know that this stands for W.ith O.ut P.apers.
We have hated the Irish, Germans, Vietnamese on and on and on goes our hatred for the next batch.
No, we do not owe non-citizens ANYTHING! Most of my family is here illegally. They are proud people who would NEVER take a hand out from the US Government nor do they expect anything from anyone. They want to work hard and have a good life.
Try to get some REAL facts on the race of people that you so eagerly judge with such hatred. you are Not part of the solution you are a part of the problem!

Answer 10

Well spoken! The point most of these conversations seem to gloss over is the word ILLEGAL. If people must come here, do it through channels. Personally, I wish none of you had come and stolen my ancestors land, but hey, you're here now.

Answer 11

They do it if you don't replace the word "anyone" with "Mexican" they just assume when you say illegal you are speaking of them , yes they are in large numbers , but they fail to agree that when you assume you make an *** out of U and ME....ASSUME and people who do that usually have something to hide. so all the people screaming racists, are what you speak of or are one themselves, yes i agree with you