Are hunting rifles overpowered?

Question

I just got a 22 cal long rifle and I know 22 are deadly like anygun but really are weak in tems of guns.

22 cal are low velocity rounds... 1260 feet per second
and only carry 130 foot lbs of energy

while a 30-06 may be 3300-4500 feet per second and carry 4000 ft lbs of energy

A 22 is adequit to kill a person, I've heard that a lot of snipers use them, obviously not the military, they use 50 cal

But a deer is rated as being the same size game as a person and were shooting them with rounds that pack 4000 lbs of energy

most cops carry 9mm which only carry 400 ft lbs

so what's the deal???

Answer 1

One of the first things you are going to learn about firearms is "the more you know, the more you know you don't know" - keep asking questions! - CCI Singer .22LR 1640fps -

For help with your ballistics(30-06), try here...
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics

This is an old book, but a great one..."Survival Guns" Mel Tappan
read this book, you will then know more than 99% of the gun nuts out here...

Answer 2

Wow. Dude no offense but your comparing apples to volkswagons.

A lot of things can kill. Rocks, sticks, bee stings, etc. What you are looking at is a variety of things that include:

1. Stopping power. A .22 may kill something 'big' like a deer or a person, but it may not stop them. Not to mention that in the time it takes for someone to bleed out what they could do to you....
2. Range. A 30-06 can accurately hit targets at 1000 yards. (by a sniper for example), A .22 rimfire is not going to do that.
3. 30-06 vs 9mm. One is a rifle round, the other a handgun. A handgun is a close range weapon that is not that good of a 'manstopper'. That why people get shot more than once. The trade off is that its a lot easier to carry a pistol on your belt than a 30-06 on your back as a police officer. Most cops are not really pleased with the 9mm and alot of agencies now carry .40 S&W or .45 ACP, which is still only a pistol round and is not in the same league as a high powered rifle round.
4. Your comparison of the .22 is basically for the rimfire round. The .223 (or 5.56 mm) that the military currently uses is travelling much faster than 1200 FPS. It is more in the 3,000 fps range
5. Everything when it comes to shooting is based upon accurate shot placement. A .22 to the head is a kill, A .22 to the guts is also, but odds are you are not going to find the deer. The better the shot placement and the bigger the bullet, the faster the incapacitation of an animal and the less tracking you have to do. I personally have seen deer take hits to the lungs and run over 200 yards. (Which is only a few seconds). If that same deer had been lets say a 150 lb person/bear/alien from Mars, etc. In that few seconds in a violent encounter, I could have been injured/killed. That is why you use as much gun as you can accurately shoot.

Answer 3

Lot of good information in this thread. And a lot of errors.
1st the errors:
30-06 has about 2500 to 2800 Ft-lbs of energy. The 30-30 is one of the first smokeless powder rounds, not black powder. The 50 BMG is too powerful for any game, it's 3X the energy of some African rifles. And who wants to carry around a 28 to 50+ lb rifle?

It only takes about 300 ft/sec to break the skin.

Even with the 2500 ft-lbs for a 30.06, it Stilll has a significant amount of energy. But what is energy? The energy figure favors light fast bullets ( it is energy = mass times velocity squared, that is: E=MC^2), but that isn't the whole story . momentum, or knock down value is based on mass times velocity ( and the Taylor knockdown value is bullet weight (lbs) times velocity (feet/sec) times bullet diameter (in)) -- Taylor was a famous African dangerous game hunter that liked big heavy bullets that anchored the and imbolized the target. Neither is a perfect measure of what a bullet does.But there are restrictions: some parts of Africa you can't hunt game with bullets smaller diameter than a certain size (375 in some cases) consider the .223 (5.56mm nato -- the m-16 bullet) the 30-30 one of the first smokeless powder bullets and the 45-70, an old military black powder bullet (and an old buffalo bullet). The 45-70 and the 223 have similiar energy: both about 1300-1400 ft--lbs energy, the 30/30 has roughly 1800-1900 ft-lbs. The 223 uses a 22 diameter bullet copper jacketed bullet (incidentally,the 22 LR is copper washed and is much softer), but it is illegal to hunt medium game with a 223; the 45-70 has been used on deer and larger game (bear, moose, etc) The taylor knockdown value is 15-18 for the 30/30, 5-6.7 for the 223, and 35-36 for the 45-70. The 45-70 ibecause of it's arcing trajectory has a limited range ( zeroed at 200 yards) at 300yd it's 3-3.5 FEET low from line of site, the 30/30 (again zeroed at 200 yds) at 300 yards is 15 to 20 inches low, and the 223 is 6-8 inches low. What does this mean? Deer are harder to hit than a human (ballistically, not ethically/morally/spiritually)There is no perfect bullet for everything.

Like everyone said the 22 long rifle can still kill, but it is less forgiving of non-critical hits. The 30-06 is much more powerful, but hunt a rabbit or squirrel with it and you wouldn't have anything to take home. But firing a 30-06 is more expensive and much moire kick. Follow up shots are easier on a 22 LR, as you can absorb the minimum recoil and find the target again faster.

pistols, with few exceptions, are made for killing people. And are much less poweful than a rifle. The 9mm (355 inches diameter) about 350 to 400 ft-lbs energy, TKD (taylor knockdown) of 6-7, a 45 ACP 400ft-lbs/ 10-13 TKD, the 40 S&W 400-500/9-11.

Remember, these are all muzzle values, and velocity will drop off depending on how wide the bullet is and type (of point) of the bullet.

Answer 4

Bound's hubby here:

First, military snipers under rare conditions use the 50 caliber. The 50 caliber Browning round is banned for use against personnel by the Geneva convention. Most militiary snipers use the M21 or the M40 in .308 or the M24 which is a .308/300 win. mag. which is a switch barrel rifle.

Second, while the .22 long rifle has been known to kill polar bear, it is an underpowered round. Accuracy becomes unpredictable beyond about 150 yards. The 22 long rifle sheds velocity and energy quickly. It's alleged that hitmen used the .22 as their weapon of choice. The 22 does not generate adequate shock, energy, expansion or wound channel for a reliable kill, larger than rabbits or squirrels.

Third, the typical .30-06 hunting round leaves the muzzle at about 2800 feet per second, with about 2400 ft-lbs of muzzle energy and retains enough muzzle energy and velocity for a reliable kill on game beyond 600 yards depending on the skill of the rifleman.

The .30-06 gives you everything and more than the 22 does not.

Fourth... comparing the 22, the .30-06, and the police 9mm, is like a teenager trying to date his grandmother. The 9mm might leave a barrel at 1400 feet per second with about 400 ft.lbs of energy. It is not a one-shot man stopper and is marginal beyond 50 yards.

Current high power hunting rifles are not overpowered. Statistics and numbers can be deceiving. Don't look at muzzle energies and muzzle velocity. Look at down range velocities, energies and bullet drop.

Answer 5

Any 30-06 that achieves 3300 FPS with a hunting bullet is likely to blow up an action. On top of that 4500 FPS with any hunting bullet save solids and all copper bullets will most likely have low penetration, the bullet will blow up, and also have more than 4000 Ft. Lbs of energy. Anyways, when a hunter shoots deer we want a clean humane kill which a .22 usually doesn't provide. More people are wounded with a .22, not killed. If you hit something in the brain, it will die, but head shots are hard and not humane either, you could easily blow a jaw off only to have the deer die later. A higher energy round will be able to reach the vitals even if it hits bones, unlike a .22. In the middle east I've heard stories of snipers using 50 BMG's on enemies, maybe not? A 338 Lapua to the foot would certainly hurt...those things pack alot of punch at both ends.

Answer 6

It is not only the energy. Range is another important issue. While 30-06 for deer is very much used, probably more deer have been harvested with the 30-30. The 30-30 is an old black powder cartridge now loaded with smokeless powder. Pistols used by the police, and soldiers close in don't need absolute power, but effectiveness traded against carrying the thing for 20 years, and maybe never having to use it. The cop shows are usually not realistic. Some varminters use 22 caliber bullets driven by a large powder charge in a large cartridge. This gives is a very fast, flat tragectory. A groundhog at 200-300 yards is a small target.
I hope that this gives some insight into the trade-offs.

Answer 7

Weight wise a deer may be close to a human in size, but it is made up differently. It takes more to 'shock' a deer than a human. A human knows he's been shot and thinks, "oh my gosh, I've been shot--I'm gonna die!" A deer will keep running even after being fatally shot because that is what it does. Same as a drugged up person, takes a lot to take him down. Which is why a lot of cops quit carrying the .9mm in favor of the .40 S&W.

Any twenty-two is really too small for deer. There is something about the 'nervous system' of the deer that takes a lot to drop him outright. I've had the best results with a .25-06 Remington or a .270 Winchester. These have proven (for me) to be one shot deer guns. I've dropped them with a .223, but had to shoot them twice and with a .243 but had to finish the job with a handgun.

I don't consider the .30-06 an overkill for deer.

H

Answer 8

Police carry 9mm, but most also have a shotgun and a AR-15. Hand guns are weak. Asking if a hunting rifle is over powered is like asking if a freezer is too cold. A hunting rifle should be as effective as you can get as to limit the amount of suffering the animal may endure. A .223 will kill a deer, but it is not an ideal round for deer as it becomes marginal as range increases, imperfect shot placement, brush, etc. A .300 Win Mag may seem too large for deer, and it is in the sense of required energy to kill a deer, but it also diminishes the likelihood of having a wounded animal run away only to die wastefully later under a great deal of suffering.

Answer 9

i beleive you have some flawed information. i have never heard of any sniper using a .22 ....in the militart we use the 5.56 nato, which is the same round as a .223 which has roughly the same sized diameter bullet, but it has more mass, and has much more powder behind it. generally the .308 or .300 magnum rounds are used for nato sniper rifles, the 7.62 russian round for the old soviet designs. the .50 is illegal to use against "soft targets" such as a human. it can only be legally used against hard targets such as trucks or equipment. thats why it is considered an anti material rifle, not an anti personel rifle.

as many people stated, the goal of hunting is to quickly and cleanly kil the animal. you want to hit it hard and make it drop. so a larger round is more effective. plus range has and accuracy is a factor. a .22 or even 5.56 lose accuracy out at ranges that a 30-06 will still be on target. but also depending on the size of animal you dont want anything too big. hunting dear with a .50 bmg isnt only illegal in most places, but its going to damage alot of the edible meat in the animal. a moose though is large enough that a .50 could be more effective.

police and military are not trying to kill people. sounds dumb but we arent. why kill a theif who pulls a gun when you can shoot him and take away the threat but have him live? and in the military setting, if im running into combat and see an enemy and shoot him BAM he falls over dead, all hes buddies are going to be like "hey gooslegeek shot bob lets kill him!"...if i shoot bob and wound him, they are going to say "het gooslegeek shot bob, you go kill him, the rest of us have to take care of him. you kill a guy you take him out of combat, you would a guy you take everyone whos helphin him out of combat....also when in combat you are shooting alot, and the recoil felt from the rifle will effect your accuracy, so a smaller round is used to lessen this. also you can carry alot more rounds in a 5.56 caliber then say a 30-06 so you can shoot longer.

obviously the most important thing is bullet placement not bullet size. a .22 to the heart will kill better then a .338 lapua to the foot. so when the military police or civilan picks a weapon, there are many deciding factors. size, ease of use, accuracy of the wepon, accuracy of the round, power, range, reliabily , cost, the list goes on. every person has a different requirment for the job they are trying to do. they need something that does everything they want, but nothing they dont.

Answer 10

hi there,if you are a great shot you can kill a deer at a hundred yards with a 22,about snipers im not sure they use 22's but ive heard that hit men like them for head shots at very close range, the average distance a cop shoots at person is 28 feet, not much need for high power there, now hunters on the other hand very seldom get the chance to shoot a still standing deer ,and sometimes they are far off over a hundred yards.this is where you need the power and the flat shooting weapon,95 percent of the deer i have harvested have been within 50 yards a few have been in at 15 feet . i could have used a hand gun ,but we here in canada are not allowed to hunt with them, and we are not allowed to hunt them with a 22 , to much wounding. we have to use a shot gun with slugs or oo buck, or a heavy center fire rifle.

Answer 11

When a rifle is used in hunting, the hunter wants the game( in this case deer ) to drop in a very short time so that the hunter can find the dead deer.
If the rifle used is too small, or to weak to bring the deer down in a very short time, the deer will run for miles with quite a bad injury. In this case the deer will die a lingering death, while the hunter continues to hunt and kill but not take anything out of the woods.
If one deer per license is permitted, the game commission wants only one deer killed, not many that will die but never be found.