for those seeking proof?

Question

a lot of us cannot believe that God exists because we think there is no proof of it. while i think that part of having faith is just that: faith, i humbly submit a few ideas that may be looked at as proof:

1)the books of the old testement were written by many authors over thousands of years, and were in circulation by the nation of israel for all of that time. it would have been awfully hard to forge them.

2)the books of the prophesy in the old testement foretold who the messiah would be, and Jesus met those criteria (that He would be called a nazarene, etc.)

3)while some may question his deity, that Jesus did exist is not reasonably questioned by historians, any more than that socrates existed.

for sake of argument, lets take the Bible at face value: as what appears to be a book written by men. examining it from a purely fact-based agenda, it may not be possible to affirm everything said in it. for example, genesis reads like oral tradition. it is the book with the (more)

most mythical flavour. we could argue that much of it is figurative, and remember that moses recorded its events thousands of years after they happened, and they had been passed on thru oral legend. that actually makes sense, given that the rest of the bible was written after civilization had matured, the written word was in effect, etc.

another thing that bugs people is that the Bible seems to contradict science. a couple of things about that: if we can conceive that genesis is largely metaphore (not unbelievable; metaphore was a major tool in Jesus' teachings) we can consider that perhaps the creation week may have actually been representative of billions of years of development, not necessarily a literal week. maybe this concept was too heavy for people so long ago. also, remember, that science isn't 100% reliable: 100 years ago, we cut people's arms to let the blood out, and 500 years ago we were still burning people at the stake. history, however, rarely changes.

Answer 1

Let me put it this way.

One must have a lot of faith, patient as well as rational thoughts to come up with useful positive points in the bible.

The language in it is not the easiest reading.

It is just hard for a rational thinking person to swallow that much at face value. Even fake stories must be believable to engage an audience.

It is dangerous to take the bible at face value as there are some radical and irrational ideas about our world and how it works. It is especially dangerous when it claims exclusive absolute knowledge. That's why many claim that people are brainwashed by the religious, bible...etc.

Science, philosophy, logic are the basic introductory tools to help someone in the long run. They work both in the real world and in religious matter. They are not the only tools and they do not exclude the possibility of "God".

I believe tolerance is blessing.

Answer 2

1) The OT is a collection of stories taken from OTHER religions, Sumerian(Mesopotamian) for example, so it's relevance to christianity is dubious as it was "adapted" to omit all the other "Gods" responsible.

2)The prophesies foretelling Jesus were NOT accurate in the slightest! They gave him the wrong name, for a start.

3)There are only TWO non-biblical sources that refer to someone called Jesus. One of those state he died by being struck by a rock from a trebuchet on the walls of Jerusalem.

To take the bible at face value would be similar to stating that the tooth fairy is real, because we can't prove otherwise.
There are MANY reliable sources compiled by scholars that readily dispute and disprove the accuracy and truths of the bible, for one, but to find these, one must dig deep in their research as the christian powers that be tend to make this literature difficult to access, for obvious reasons.(obvious being, to dispel the myth of certain religions would inevitably cause many to lose seats of great power and influence that have been held for centuries, it would also mean the powers that be would no longer have such a hold on the vast amounts of the population that need others to think for them-a product of social conditioning-and those who are gulliable enough to accept something without proof or personal research into it)

The bible is indeed a very old and important book. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people fail to realise WHAT this book is actually about. A hint: It's NOT about God.

;)


As for history, it is written by the victors, not the accurists! Think of it like this: if hitler had won, do you think our history books would be full of the atrosities the Germans committed?
How many history books do YOU know of that tell of all the ALLIED atrocities, including OUR concentration camps, complete with human experimentations and torture, that were in effect during that time, mirroring the Germans? Did you even KNOW we had concentration camps???

Answer 3

"1)the books of the old testement were written by many authors over thousands of years, and were in circulation by the nation of israel for all of that time. it would have been awfully hard to forge them."

I don't know if that's true or not but why do you consider it to be proof that the god of the Bible exists?

"2)the books of the prophesy in the old testement foretold who the messiah would be, and Jesus met those criteria (that He would be called a nazarene, etc.)"

Some people read the old testament and made up a character based on the traits of the supposed "messiah" to come. Anyone can do that with any book that contains predictions or "prophesies".

"3)while some may question his deity, that Jesus did exist is not reasonably questioned by historians, any more than that socrates existed."

How do you know? How many historians have you spoken to? It's entirely possible that Jesus the man never existed at all.

"Christianity borrowed its central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions. The ancient world was rife with tales of virgin births, miracle-working saviors, tripartite gods, gods taking human form, gods arising from the dead, heavens and hells, and days of judgment. In addition to the myths, many of the ceremonies of ancient religions also match those of that syncretic latecomer, Christianity. To cite but one example (there are many others), consider Mithraism, a Persian religion predating Christianity by centuries. Mithra, the savior of the Mithraic religion and a god who took human form, was born of a virgin; he belonged to the holy trinity and was a link between heaven and Earth; and he ascended into heaven after his death. His followers believed in heaven and hell, looked forward to a day of judgment, and referred to Mithra as "the Light of the World." They also practiced baptism (for purification purposes) and ritual cannibalism—the eating of bread and the drinking of wine to symbolize the eating and drinking of the god’s body and blood. Given all this, Mithra’s birthday should come as no surprise: December 25th; this event was, of course, celebrated by Mithra’s followers at midnight.

Mithraism is but the most striking example of the appearance of these myths and ceremonies prior to the advent of Christianity. They appear—in more scattered form—in many other pre-Christian religions."

You haven't offered any evidence that the god of the Bible exists, not to mention "proof".

Answer 4

You can't use the bible to prove itself. While some names and places may be historical, that doesn't not indicate the whole thing is true.

The Iliad contains some factual places and events, but that is insufficient to prove the existence of Zeus and Aphrodite. Same for the bible.

I wouldn't buy a car or a house unseen, nor without proof of title of ownership. Why do people make a lifetime to commitment to a god with no proof? It seems quite irrational.

Answer 5

1.) I don't deny that the books existed. They were written by ignorant barbarians and have nothing to do with anything supernatural.

2.) Seriously, you think that the writers of the NT had never read the OT?

3.)There is not one jot or tittle of contemporary evidence that Jesus even existed. It wouldn't matter to me if he did, but modern biblical scholarship makes a strong case that he never existed.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAPIngDjJVo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NPQM6A6IAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUcv5PaDvwo&NR

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Sounds to me like you are just wanting the Bible to be true and trying to conform what the Bible actually says to what you believe. You should follow the truth where it leads and not just believe something to be true because you want it to be true.

If the Bible got so much wrong as you claim then how do you know that John 3:16 isn't wrong...or anything else in there for that matter. I think you should read a Bible. Read it like you would any other book..take off the rose colored glasses when reading it..and when you come across the filth and absurdites that are in there don't attempt to whitewash them. When you find a blatant contradiction, don't do crazy mental gymnastics to try to convince yourself it isn't there.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

The scientific method is the only way we have for determining what is true. If something is false then the scientific method is what finds that out for us.

Faith is not a means to knowledge. If faith is what it takes to make something true, then that means all religions are true.

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Answer 6

I never take any book at face value. Every book ever written is written with bias and opinion. It can't be helped because the authors are human beings. Therefore, personal beliefs are interjected with what may or may not be fact.

I never blindly follow anything.

Answer 7

I do not belive that Bible contents at least 50% of the actual event which had place..
Plus Bible is written by people. I am not sure that explaining way of Jesus they are saying correct ...
As there are no direct speach/word of God as in Qur`an, I do not accept modern Bible as a source of religion

Answer 8

3)while some may question his deity, that Jesus did exist is not reasonably questioned by historians, any more than that socrates existed.

Its questioned by freethinkers and scientists to be honest i think science will overtake religion soon since it has proof rather than faith when was the last time you saw a miracle e.g splitting open a sea with a rod

Answer 9

As to 'proof 1' who claims forgery...its a story.

As to 'proof 2' NO JESUS DID NOT MEET THE CRITERIA OR THE JEWS WOULD BE CHRISTIANS...I THINK THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE OT A LITTLE BETTER THAN A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO SAY IT WAS "FOR THOSE TIMES"

3) So?

Answer 10

It is all philosophical rhetoric and there is no right or wrong per se...You cannot debate a philosophical point with the intent of being right necessarily.