One issue at a time. Can we agree that Creator and the God in the Bible may not be one and the same?

Question

This is an answer to one of my questions:

"Its not about the creator so much as believing the bible stories, even the one about Jesus...especially"

So for your replies, please do not refer to Christianity and the Genesis account.

Here is the question, philosophically, many philosophers believe there has to be a First Cause or a Creator. A Creator would have to be the most logical and rational being. His drive for creation would come from passion or love.

People who are truly aligned with believing in a Creator are loving, reasonable, fact-based people. What is wrong with that?

I fully align with freedom of religion so I was purposefully non-denominational. My religion is not important to this question.

Answer 1

Silly, THE BIBLE ITSELF SAYS THAT GOD DID NOT CREATE THE WORLD or the UNIVERSE. That job was given to his only begotten son. God created his son, and his son created EVERYTHING ELSE.

This is the REASON the sacrifice of his only-begotten son was so sacred, THE ONLY THING IN THE UNIVERSE HE CREATED, DIED FOR US!!!

Here's the explanation, Jesus DID HAVE a pre-existance in Heaven BEFORE coming to earth as Christ Jesus. This proves it and it DESCRIBES HIM CREATING THE UNIVERSE!!!


Jesus as the Archangel Michael

He was THE Archangel Michael (there is ONLY ONE Archangel in the Holy Bible (Jude 9), and it is Michael). Read "Wisdom Personified" (Proverbs 8:22-36) in Psalms, it’s Michael (pre-existence of Jesus talking) about his creation by God and how everything was then created by him.

At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 it states here he has "the Archangels voice" when it says "16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; (Mat. 24:30; 1 Cor. 15:52; 15: 23). Since Christ is NOW IN HEAVEN the King of All except God, it would be a "lowering or a downgrade of his position to call him THE Archangel, unless he ALREADY WAS."

Also, other correspondences establishing that Michael is actually the Son of God are listed. Daniel, after marking the first reference to Michael (Dan. 10:13), recorded a long-range prophecy reaching down to "the time of the end" (Daniel 11:40), and then stated: "And during that TIME MICHAEL WILL STAND UP (Dan. 12:1), that is will take up power or begin to reign as king. (Compare Daniel 8:22, 23; 11:2, 3, 7, 20, 21.) This implies that a period of being seated preceded his standing up as king. In agreement there with Hebrews 10:12, 13 says regarding Christ Jesus: "This man offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet." Michael's stand up was to lead to a "time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time." (Dan. 12:1).

The Book of Revelation (12:7, 10, 12) mentions Michael in connection with the establishment of God's kingdom and links the event with trouble for the earth: "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: 'Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down . . . On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea.' “Jesus Christ is later depicted as leading the heavenly armies in war against the nations of the earth. (Rev. 19:11-16) This would mean a period of distress for them which is to follow Michael's standing up. (Dan. 12:1)

In his prehuman existence Jesus was called "the Word." (John 1:1) He also had the personal name Michael. By retaining the name Jesus after his resurrection (Acts 9:5), the "Word" shows that he is identical with the Son of God on earth. His resuming his heavenly name Michael and his title (or, name) "The Word of God" (Rev. 1(:13) ties him with his prehuman existence. The very name Michael, MEANING as it does "Who is like God?," points to the fact that God is WITHOUT LIKE or EQUAL and Michael as his archangel is his greatest Champion or Vindicator, never trying to equal himself to his Father and Creator.

There's more, but you get the idea.

Answer 2

First, I find it interesting that you capitalize "Creator." Is there some reason you turned creator into a proper noun? Could it be a subconcious attempt at equating the creator with God?

The fact of the matter is, we have no reason to believe or disbelieve there was a creator, but the existence of a creator begs the question, "Where did the creator come from?" Did not the creator have to be created? After all, if we look around and deduce that this complex world had to be created because it couldn't have just happened, then the being that created this incredible universe must have been even more complex, thus requiring a creator creator. If you follow this logic, you end up with an infinite regression that doesn't end because each creator requires a more complex creator to have come into existence.

If the creator for some reason is not required to have been more complex than its creation, then that which the creator created (the universe) didn't necessarily need a creator either.

How's that for philosophy?

As far as the creation motivation being passion or love, I don't see any evidence for that. I think this is a wonderful world with lots of beauty and love and lots of ugliness and evil. I choose to try and create more beauty and love myself. Part of that is getting people to give up supernatural beliefs and deal with reality which can be quite rewarding. I am sorry, but my observation is that people "aligned with believing in a Creator" are often loving, reasonable and fact-based in many matters and driven by emotions in many matters.

Answer 3

Nothing is wrong with believing that the creator is not God as some believe God to be.
I for one am all for freedom to choose religion or not.
The one thing I am against is people imposing their views on others.
However there is a difference between imposing views and stating ones views. Anyone can state thier view in a respectable manner.
Personally I don't see how your question is a question in the first place, it is a statement, where is the question?
"""Here is the question, philosophically, many philosophers believe there has to be a First Cause or a Creator. A Creator would have to be the most logical and rational being. His drive for creation would come from passion or love."""
Or maybe the last part of the next paragraph is the question and if this is the case you set yourself up for the responses you got. """What is wrong with that?"""" What is wrong with what? Your statement. Nothing is neither right nor wrong about someone's personal believes.

Answer 4

I believe that God is the creator of all things. God is the Trinity, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. With His many facets he has created all. I don't believe it is all about the bible stories but in the knowing of His great existence.

Answer 5

Date: Sep 15, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject Interesting reponse from ABC
Body: AN ABC MESSAGE YOU HAVE TO READ
If more of us took a stand maybe we could have some decent TV programs. -- Jim Nugent is a coach in Childress, Texas.
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Jim writes:

My name is Jim Neugent. I wrote to ABC (on-line) concerning a program called "THE PRACTICE." In last nights episode, one of the lawyer's mothers decided she is gay and wanted her son to go to court and help her get a marriage license so she could marry her 'partner.' ! I sent the following letter to ABC yesterday and really did not expect a reply, but I did get one.

My original message was:

ABC is obsessed (or should I say abscessed) ! with the subject of homosexuality. I will no longer watch any of your attempts to convince the world that homosexuality is OK. THE PRACTICE can be a fairly good show, but last night's program was so typical of your agenda. You picked the 'dufus' of the office to be the one who was against the idea of his mother being gay and made him look like a whiner because he had convictions. This type of mentality calls people like me a "gay basher." Read the first chapter of Romans (that's in the Bible) and see what the apostle Paul had to say about it.... He, God and Jesus were all 'gay bashers'. What if she'd fallen in love with her cocker spaniel? Is that an alternative lifestyle? (By the way, the Bible speaks against that, too.)
--Jim Neugent
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Here is ABC's reply from the ABC on-line webmaster:

How about getting your nose out of the Bible (which is ONLY a book of stories compiled by MANY different writers hundreds of years ago) and read the declaration of independence (what our nation is built on), where it says "All Men are Created equal," and try treating them that way for a change! Or better yet, try thinking for yourself and stop using an archaic book of stories as your lame crutch for your existence. You are in minority in this country and your boycott will not affect us or our freedom of statement.
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Jim Neugent's second response to ABC:

Thanks for your reply. From your harsh reply, evidently I hit a nerve. I will share it with all with whom I come in contact. Hopefully, the Arkansas Democrat Newspaper will include it in one of their columns and I will be praying for you.
- -Jim Neugent
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Note: Wouldn't Satan just love it if people stopped using the Bible
for a crutch? Please resend this to everyone in your mailbox.


-- Thanks, Jim Neugent

I wonder if the person from ABC considered how many people would read this e-mail!

This is one we should definitely pass on.

Answer 6

not referring to the bible (that I do believe is true if one finds the corect prespective) it is still some what easy with logic it is no stretch of logic to release that regardless of what or who GOD is He is GOD for the simple reason that he is creator, and by that logic God can not be over thrown or dethroned or turned down. because God is God because of what he did not who he is, God is God regardless of the number of people that know him or worship him. The creator is God because he created. not becasue of a number of people angles or demonds that happen to folow him.

Answer 7

NO! I can't agree with that. But you are free to believe what you wish and I guess in the end we will find out who is right.

Answer 8

Who created the Creator then, or where did he originate from??? This can never be explained.

Answer 9

NO Jesus made all things and he is part of God..JESUS IS LORD