Atheist and Christian: Some common ground? Part 2?

Question

I'd like to invite people to see the responses to my last question and see how it further makes my point.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqKdhJZ2q6Zbrswcson4mhrsy6IX?qid=20060915110608AA1aqUD

Bias is the fundemental element to all opinions. I assure to all Atheist that I have a very deep understanding of science. I've studied it most of my life and continue doing so as an engineer soon to be a graduate student. My bias while studying science has been to assume a God-made universe. This has lead me to interpret my observations in such a way that I see God behind it all. Though if I was to start with the assumption that God doesn't exist I would have come to that very same conclusion.

The same thing will happen if you study the BIble. If you study it assuming it to be false you will find fault because you want it to be there. However if you look to it for God's truth thats what you'll find

It's your choice.

Answer 1

That isn't common ground, you just said atheists and christians see everything completely differently, and followed it up with a half-hearted attempt to convert us.

Answer 2

I studied the Bible back when I was still a Christian, in an attempt to prove atheists wrong. Unfortunately, in my search for ammunition to use against them, I had to admit that all the ammunition was pointed at me.

Discovering one absurdity after another, the more I read of the bible, the more I lost my faith. Eventually I got down on my knees and prayed, and begged god to restore my faith. I begged him to give me the strength and wisdom to defend against the atheists, because I didn't know what else to do.

God, as usual... didn't provide any help. That's because god doesn't exist. And that was very hard for me to accept at the time. But since then, I've lost the brainwashing that I had grown up with. I see things clearly now. My vision is no longer biased. I don't expect proofs of god's existence to be false. They simply are false, and even a small child could understand why, so long as he looked at the "proofs" objectively, and applied the proper scrutiny.

Atheism is not bias. Atheism is reality. Given the tiniest scrap of evidence that would make a god possible, any atheist would reconsider his position. We are not locked into anything. You are. You have faith to lose. We do not. We accept facts as we see them, and we make rational decisions based on those facts.

Answer 3

Of course everyone is going to argue from their bias. It's only that most Athiests have seen it from boths sides of that bias. Most Christians haven't even questioned their beliefs, or seen it from the other side.

For me, personally, I don't care what you believe. You can believe a giant dog farted our earth into existence for all I care. The problem is when you take a totally subjective idea and try to implement it in a science class.

You're an engineer, and you can appreciate some aspects of science. But you're not going to assume God's hand to the point that it prevents you from progress in your field. It was once believed that God caused lightning. If we left with that assumption and then it would halt progress.

Answer 4

You say "Though if I was to start with the assumption that God doesn't exist I would have come to that very same conclusion." Yet you also say that the only way to find God's truth is if you assume it to be true in the first place. You contradict yourself here. You say in the first quote that if you had started with the assumption God did not exist while studying science you would have come the conclusion that he did no matter what. Yet, you say that you cannot come to the same conclusion from a similar starting point of view for nonbelievers.

Answer 5

Yes, people tend to see what they want to see. That's why we use the scientific method in order to attempt to get at the truth of things.

With the scientific method, you form a hypothesis, then you conduct some sort of experiment, and the result will indicate whether your hypothesis had any merit. This process helps you to discard bad beliefs that aren't supported by evidence, and helps to reinforce those beliefs that are.

One can also use logic to reach truth. If two statements contradict each other, then you can figure out that it isn't possible for both to be true, even if you lack the evidence to figure out which one is false.

Here's a question for you: How does religion go about discarding bad beliefs? As I see it, the religious approach requires you to accept - on blind faith - that x is true and y is false. Looking at evidence is discouraged if not outright prohibited.

Now, I ask you... which approach is more likely to yield a worldview that approaches the truth?

Answer 6

True - we all have free choice. One day we will have the proof one way or the other, we are all seeking and for some it will be too late but that is a chance people are willing to take because most of us our pretty short sighted. Some believe death is an end, while others believe there is no such thing as death because you can't be dead if you never lived. Now that is something to ponder....

Answer 7

But if you look at the cosmos with a preconceived notion that they were formed when Jeremiah, the talking cosmic duck, farted them into existence, you would find evidence to support that as well. As a proclaimed scientist, you should be looking at the evidence with the assumption that there is no God, and then drawing logical conclusions from existing evidence. There is nothing scientific about assuming a God and then interpreting evidence as indicating your preconceived result...

The default assumption is that there is no God. Otherwise, you can not establish a higher validity for your God than for the Roman Gods.

Answer 8

Most christians are not permitted to seriously consider the premise that God does not exist. And they don't. So they will will never have true understanding of the other side. Even Chistian converts are usually agnostic, before they convert, not truly athiestic (they are more likely to not know what they believe). You say you have a deep understanding of science, but you do not have a deep understanding of Athiesm.

Most Athiests have huge pressure on them to study the bible early in life, and most do before they make the decision to stop believing in the supernatural. It is often a difficult and soul-searching process. We have given both ideologies a fair chance, you have not.

Apples and oranges.

Answer 9

Good for you for studying science so thoroughly. Would you like a cookie?

Your theist counterparts aren't quite so fortunate. They still believe things like ghosts, angels, and demons exist. They still believe that stem cells are equivocal to people. They still believe that homosexuality is a choice. They still believe that evolution isn't "proven", that evolution makes claims that we evolved from "monkeys", and that "micro and macro evolution are two different things - micro can happen, but macro can't."

When you can clarify all those points and convince Christians to change their opinion on such topics that clearly fall into the realm of science, perhaps people would be more interested in the other things that you believe in.

Answer 10

There's a third area here you haven't examined. It's possible to not believe in the bible, yet know far more about what's in it and the history of it than someone who does believe it's the word of God.

It's also possible to be an expert in evolution, with much more experience in it than the average atheist, yet still not buy it.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you're working with the assumption that each side knows more about their stance than the other side, and many times that is not true.

Answer 11

"If you study it assuming it to be false you will find fault because you want it to be there. However if you look to it for God's truth thats what you'll find."

This is simply a false proposition. I studied scripture for decades, including seminary, to look for God's truth. Ultimately I found man's works and man's faults along with man's virtues. I know literally dozens like me with the same experience. In fact it is so common that when I was accepted to seminary, my pastor, someone with a doctorate from Dallas Theologiocal Seminary himself, warned me that seminary could as easily make me an atheist as well as equip me for ministry, "You'll learn things aren't as simple as you believe today and you'll learn some things you'll wish you didn't know afterwards." He was right. The truth sets you free, whether you wanted to be free or not.