Is circumcision outdated, cruel in fact? - In context of Jewish girlfriend explaining to non-Jewish boyfriend.

Question

My boyfriend has a degree in Philosophy, and his father is lapsed in the Jewish faith. So he is quite well-informed. I on the other hand, have a Jewish upbringing and quite strong need to keep the faith going onto the next generation. My boyfriend supports me in every aspect, except he says he would not allow for his baby son (hypothetically, we aren't even married yet) to be circumcised. I feel hopelessly uninformed about the subject to further our discussions on it.

Answer 1

Circumcision is neither outdated nor cruel. Where the Jewish faith is concerned, it is an outward symbol of the Covenant between G-d and the Jewish people. While circumcision is considered to be a commandment, the procedure in and of itself is meaningless when taken out of its religious context (Bris Milat) unless one is having it done strictly for hygienic or cosmetic purposes.

Answer 2

I think it's becoming outdated as our lifestyle changes. Foreskin is a breeding ground for bacteria and circumcision keeps everything nice and clean. If you are in the United States, then it probably isn't necessary due to our horrible habit of showering constantly. If you are in France, you might want to have it hacked off. There may be some religious reason for the circumcision that has nothing to do with cleanliness though. Better speak to the Rabbi. If you do decide on having the procedure done, ask the Dr. to remove as little as possible. Having some foreskin makes it much easier to masturbate. I'm sure the church will see this different but it is a healthy activity.

Answer 3

I've been researching this like crazy since I found out that I'm having a boy.

There are pretty much no health benefits. This day and age, if you're not Jewish, it's pretty much an aesthetics thing. The foreskin of a boy is akin to the labia minora on a girl and I wouldn't chop off either. I've read up on it alot and I know that people will always disagree on this subject but go watch a video of it online. I could never cause that kind of pain to my child for no good reason. It takes a grown man up to a year or longer to heal, why inflict all that pain on a little baby who had no say in the cutting off part of his genitals? I don't know how anyone can say it hurts more later in life since the baby can't tell you how badly it hurts. I'd think the pain level would be similer since it's a similar operation. I don't think it's been proven that it's worse sooner or later but it has been proven that it is painful for a baby.
Bottom line for me is this : It's not your body, it's his. Let the child decide when he grows up. He can always choose to have it cut off later, he can't really glue it back on.

It will be the decision of the both of you though. Whatever you decide, it'll all turn out cool. I love that you're educating yourself to have a smarter discussion with your loved one. Good for you!

*Edit*
The whole thing with being more apt to catching HIV? You have to be living a pretty dangerous lifestyle to be at risk there. Talk to your son about not sleeping around without protection and not sharing needles and you don't have to worry about HIV. Pretty sure it's the lifestyle and not the foreskin that makes the risk higher.

Answer 4

Circumsision had originally a medical reason, since it makes cleaning easier and infection less likely. I believe hygiene instructions where written as religious laws, because people tend to follow the instructions from their priests a lot better than from their doctor (in this aspect, nothing has changed, some people still do).

With modern medicine and also the invention of underwear, soap and water purification (just to name a few), the medical reasons are mostly gone. Why religions still follow 20 century old or even older rules is beyond me, especially when you remember that the original books (the Bible being a very good example) have been translated and re-interpreted 1000's of times since then.

Answer 5

The point in it is hygiene.

Now since the world is much advanced and cleanliness is not a problem, I don't think it has any value today. Jesus came among Jews and he said it is not necessary, that too 2000 years back. Means by that time people learnt how to keep their body clean.

In the beginning all what advises we received were treated as religious doctrines. The issue of circumcision must be a health discipline and later turned as a religious ritual.

Answer 6

Hello,

Funnily the Royal family men are all circumcised!

Besides tradition, it is also healthier for the female. I saw a study that women whose partner were circumcised were less likely to get cervical cancer. It keeps him cleaner and healthier as well, re: Cancer

It is not cruel, why would he say that? That is why they do it to babies. If it was cruel I am sure the World Health Organisation would have tried to ban it.

It is the once procedure thst Muslim and Jewish faiths share, but it's not even unique just to them

The health issue is the main reason here

Answer 7

The Torah's commandment of circumcision has always been a fundamental part of Jewish life. Our ancestors would give do anything it takes to do this mitzvah. Take a look at the following links for a deeper understanding.
http://www.aish.com/literacy/lifecycle/What_is_Circumcision$.asp
http://www.aish.com/literacy/lifecycle/Bris_Milah_Beautiful_or_Barbaric$.asp

I very much respect your passion for your heritage and you sincere interest in passing on the faith to the next generation. I do however find it confusing why you are not concerned about the basic idea of marrying a non Jew. Studies have found that intermarrying is the number one threat for Jewish continuity, and can be extremely confusing to the children of such a union. Before you take such a major step in life, I would highly recommend that you read a beautiful book, called "Why Marry Jewish" which I have found extremely informative and inspiring. You can get the details of it on http://www.jewishanddating.com/

Best Blessings!

Answer 8

Let's be honest, this is simply ritual mutilation. If I invited someone to interfere with my baby's penis I'd be charged with abuse, as would the cutter. Dress it up as religious observance and you can get away with anything.
It might have been a sensible precaution thousands of years ago when you lived in the desert and had poor hygiene, but not today. Today it is done for purely ritual reasons (and lets not forget that Muslims mutilate their children this way as well).
As for the health argument. If you practise good personal hygiene there is no problem. If circumcision is indicated for genuine medical reason it should be done in hospital, as my son's circumcision was.
Religion should no longer be an excuse for outmoded cruelty.
And lets not get started on halal and kosher slaughter practises!

Answer 9

This is a response to an earlier question "will circumcision be illegal in the US?"

The same insights given there might apply to your Question:




According to Leviticus & Deuteromony circumcision should take place after the 8th day.

The practice is personal is an individual choice for oneself or offspring. For most the practice is referenced in the story of Abraham. Igbo,Mandinka, Ashanti & others have had the practice for thousands of years.

There have been many debates about the medical and ceromonial importance of circumsision. The Bible versions are silent as to the reasoning based on religious symbology or medical for the procedure.

I found the reasoning based on religious symbology in the "Gospel of Barnabus." This is one of the Gospels written in Hebrew disallowed by the Nicene Council in 325 C.E. when the first Bible was voted upon. Barnabus was a companion of Jesus. I consider it a must read for anyone serious about understanding the philosphy& teaching of Jesus.

Your comment "It is indeed a significant part of my penis," directly relates to the answer Jesus gave for the symbology.

I am paraphrasing here. The position that this was symbolic of sacrfice to the God that created everything including the penis, and the obediance to the God, so as not to be a slave to anything created by the God, including the something attached to the body. I do not recall the any specifcs to the procedure regarding babies.

I understand & to some extent agree with your position that is should be a personal choice by someone that understands the all of significance, as well as the pros & cons of the proceedure.

In light of the position given in the Gospel of Barnabas, it gives some understnding to the saying 'not to let the little head do the thinking of the big head."

That little piece of flesh(the penis) withers away with the remainder of flesh at death. It has not even a bone. It has been used as a weapon of psuedo-power over both men & women. The phallus has been (and by some still is) worsiped. The indiscriminate use has caused problems for giver and receive alike.

The same piece of flesh has caused pleasure and has aided in the conception of many good Men & Women. Perhaps what is missing is the seriousness of the significance of this piece of flesh and the personal responsibility that it symbolizes.

Answer 10

Sorry ladies to intrude but I was attracted by the subject matter.
I have lived a long life with out any real discomfort but now I have been told I need circumcision.
The ointment provided and my cleansing routines leave me OK but I am aware of MS?? and will not have it done.
I read the other day that circumcised men are ten times less likely to catch HIV.
I am C of E
Thought this might help