Perpetual motion part two, I am just playing now. punch holes and or play with me..?

Question

Thought experiment :
A
Imagine a vast machine, bigger then the accelerator at C.E.R.N,
massive, or in fact you could imagine it desk ornament size come to think of it

And what it does is this...

There is say a 1000 meter perfectly engineered shaft, down which a say a massive ball is dropped, also perfectly engineered, the ball accelerates down the shaft, the shaft after the drop curves around using the momentum from the drop of the ball, the ball then goes up the extremely well engineered and tested ramp, back up to another shaft parallel shaft which has all of the many many balls on a water mill type of bucket system, so that when a ball drops into its waiting basket, or bucket, at the bottom of the said second shaft... this weight on the "ball mill" then causes the mill (also very exactly engineered) to drop down one space with weight of said ball, this in turn causes top ball to tilt over the edge and start its plummet down the 1000m shaft , and around back to the "mill"

A highly inefficent machine.
An unpractible idea,
A way to make it work,
the what ifs,
the future?
your views

Also could anyone figure out a way to actually harness the energy?

and I know this isa vast waste of technology

Please note the ball does not need to go back up the shaft, to any height at all , it joins the water mill of balls at the bottom of the shaft or half way up, (enrgy on the way up to?) and it is the mill full of balls, which turns and drops the next one waiting in line !!

Answer 1

Boy you have the perpetual motion bug.....lol
Instead of thinking big, try thinking small....
Particles are in perpetual motion around a nucleus of an atom......

Answer 2

If you could make your "perfect" shaft, ball, ramp, etc, why waste your effort with the water mill type bucket system. Just give your ball an intiial push. This initial push will give it slightly more energy than it has only from it's initial height (potential energy) at the top of your shaft. Then, every time it makes a cycle back to the top of your shaft system, it will still have the energy (or momentum, or speed, or push, however you want to view it) that you initially gave it, and it will continue on it's path making another cycle back down and up the ramp.

So what? Now you've put your ball in perpetual motion, but anytime you try to "harness" any of this energy, you remove that energy from the system, until you eventually take out the energy of your initial push, and the energy of the intial height of the ball, and the ball finally comes to a stop when all the energy is removed.

This is one of the falacies that people like yourself fall into when toying with perpetual motion. That is, even if you could create your imagined perfection (which you can't), you still have not created an energy producing system.

Answer 3

an engineer is right. Perpetual motion is not really the issue: it's getting useful 'work' for nothing that seems to be the obsession with some people. 'Tattie_herbert' is also right, there is a dynamic perpetualism about the state of an atom, but you can't get work out of it without changing the state.

The conservation of energy is a principle which seems to hold on the human scale. HOWEVER, it is by no means certain that on a COSMIC scale, according to general relativity, energy is conserved. So, if you want to design perpetual generation of energy machines, THINK BIG. Thinking small isn't going to hack it, I'm afraid.

Answer 4

There is nothing wrong with the concept of your machine. In a frictionless, perfect world perpetual motion is possible. The planets in orbit is an example of a nearly perfect system that almost attains perpetual motion. Even there, there are energy losses that causes orbits to decay.

In your system, rolling friction, air resistance, and impact losses will convert your kinetic and potential energy to heat, slowly but surely, and the system will eventually slow to a stop.

Answer 5

It won't work, and the reason is not in thermodynamics but can be found when looking at a simple fluid problem.

If you have a u tube with the curve on the bottom and then fill it with water then the level of fluid will at the same height for the same pressure on both sides of the tube. No in you case you have steel balls not a fluid but the same law should apply.

Answer 6

unfortunately it won't work because the first ball will not go all the way up the other side to turn the wheel. Some of its energy will be lost to its horizontal motion so even if the shafts are "perfect" it may only go up 900m

Answer 7

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Answer 8

Most people interested in engineering think they can design a perpetual motion machine, however perpetual motion is impossible. Whatever ideas you have had someone else will have thought of it.

See the links below or enter Perpetual Motion into your favourite search engine.

Answer 9

yes, the ball will fail due to friction and gravity..but not if you inject compressed air into the bore behind the ball. then its mass and stored energy will overcome gravity, and flip over the top. make teh ball accellerate, gravity is a constant..overcome that, or negate its effect. and you could use a pulsed magnetic ring. like maglev train to fire the ball.. but eh power consumption of the magnets will eat everything you produce and lots more.... nothing is free...

Answer 10

How are you going to get over friction losses and air resistance losses? Nothing is perfect! Friction would eventually stop it.