How far off are affordable hydogen cars and fuel-cell production?

Question

Affordable as in under 50,000.

Answer 1

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Interesting question. In my opinion, the promise of a fuel cell car is a political diversion, to keep us from focusing on more realistic alternative fuel cars. The oil industry likes the hydrogen idea because they are the logical choice for building the infrastructure and processing the fuel.
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Remember, a fuel cell car is an electric car. Instead of batteries (which are about 88% efficient), the electricity comes from stored hydrogen. But the process is intrinsically inefficient. There is no 'hydrogen mine' to get hydrogen from, so hydrogen must be extracted, using electricity. Here's the important part to remember: it takes at least twice as much electrical energy to make the hydrogen than the fuel cell will ever output - and new research is not likely to improve this figure anytime soon. So the fuel cell car is not going to be a recipe for significant energy conservation.
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As long as we'll be driving electric cars anyway, and using large amounts of electricity, how far away is battery research from giving us the perfect electric vehicle power source? It turns out, not very far away at all - and decades closer than affordable fuel cells. Example: The Chinese have been doing lots of electric vehicle research. Here's one of their cars, which may be available in the US next year. It gets 200 miles per charge, does freeway speeds, and costs $28,500:
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http://www.milesautomotive.com/products_xs200.html
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This vehicle solves almost all the problems, except recharge time. But that problem is almost solved, too. A company named EESTOR, out of Texas, has a new power source. It's called an ultracapacitor, and it holds power like a battery, but can be recharged in a few minutes. This technology may be ready as soon as next year. Story:
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http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141599010468&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist971715454851
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Rechargable batteries have another advantage over all other fuel-based cars: energy that is transmitted over wires (at 95% efficiency) versus fuel delivered by trucks, which necessarily wastes still more energy.
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One final note: if the oil companies really wanted an affordable and efficient fuel cell tomorrow, it turns out they already own the patents to one. The NIMH battery, which Chevron/Texaco bought the patents for, is a battery that, when charged, stores energy chemically in the form of hydrogen - and converts it back to electricity more efficiently than a fuel cell. This battery was used successfully in the ill-fated EV1 electric car, and the Toyota RAV 4 EV, which Chevron/Texaco (Cobasys) sued Toyota over - forcing them to pull the vehicle off the road (rumored to be the real reason - details of legal settlement kept secret). Once they bought the patents, they sold the battery to everyone who wants it - except EV manufacturers. No pure electric vehicle has been allowed to use them. Why do you suppose this is?
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Answer 2

Forever. There is no energy-efficient way to make hydrogen. Industrial hydrogen is mostly made from natural gas, but can be made by electrolyzing water in a very energy-intensive process. Not only is hydrogen costly in terms of energy required to make it, it is difficult to handle: it cannot be shipped through the same pipes that are used to transport natural gas, because it invades the grain structure of the steel and weakens it. (It could be transported if you lined all the pipes. But I would not like to rely on a lining remaining leakproof.) To be used in a vehicle, it must be stored either in liquid form -- which requires a lot of energy to make, as liquid hydrogen is the second coldest liquid there is -- or pressurized to exceedingly high pressures -- typically 5000 psi. Thus, special handling would be needed -- your Aunt Hattie isn't going to be able to drive into a service station and fill up her Newmobile with hydrogen. The density of hydrogen is so low that a standard welding cylinder filled with the stuff contains barely more energy than a half gallon of gasoline.

Answer 3

I don't picture Hydrogen will ever be the most desirable fuel as it's inheirently very explosive. Conceivably Hydrogen could be used to replace AVgas if we go over to corn or pig fuel but I don't imagine it would be used for cars on a widespread application.

Answer 4

go see the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car". Fuel cells are a cynical pie in the sky way to draw attention away from electric cars.

Answer 5

I agree the technology may exist in a decade or so, but it will also depend on the cost-effectiveness (and willingness) of changing from the petroleum-based infrastructure to a hydrogen one.

Answer 6

Hi. They just discovered a new method of grabbing hydrogen and storing it based on doped carbon nanotubes. If this works out, maybe 10 years, maybe less.

Answer 7

The question is if they will ever be as cheap as gasoline-powered cars. The politicians may have to level the plane field with taxes, if anybody is to start using them.

Answer 8

pretty far off. at this point, you need to use fossil fuels to make hydrogen fuel. probably 10 years.

Answer 9

to far of we already have the technology but its cost as usual money before planet earth