Do you know of any reasoned arguments for the non-existence of gods?

Question

It's common for atheists to say to believers:

"It's your belief that a god exists, so it's up to you to support it, not up to us to refute it"

...and:

"Belief in the existence of gods is one of an infinite number of beliefs that we can imagine, and just because we haven't disproved them, that doesn't mean we should believe any of them".

These are perfectly valid points, and perfectly good reasons to decline to believe religious people's unsupported beliefs (or any unsupported beliefs for that matter), but there are also good logical arguments that deities with specific attributes - e.g. intelligent creator gods and the tri-omni gods of the classical monotheistic religions - cannot possibly exist.

Can you give me any of those logical arguments?

Brenda: So true...

deazone: Some very interesting comments there which, to me, just reinforce the almost self-evident fact that gods are just like people, with human emotions and thought processes and prejudices, because they're invented by people.

JackBauer: Excellent answer, very articulate and intelligent - exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.

Gustavo B: Yes indeed, it doesn't make sense to imagine a 'first cause' which already has characteristics such as intelligence and moral judgments and creativity - it's precisely those sort of characteristics which religious folks argue cannot just exist uncaused, and thus the argument for an uncaused entity is self-refuting.

Answer 1

Many people say that one would have to be everywhere in the entire universe at once to prove that something doesn’t exist. That is not always true though, sometimes a negative can be proven. Consider a square circle. Does one have to be everywhere at once in order to know that a perfect circle with corners doesn't exist? No. What about a 4 pointed triangle? Does one have to be everywhere in the universe at once to know that a 4 pointed triangle doesn't exist? No. These things cannot possibly exist anywhere because by definition they have properties that contradict one another. This is the same way it is for the god that so many people claim to worship, such as the god of the Bible. The god of the Bible is omniscient (all knowing) and he makes decisions. That's impossible though, those two properties are mutually exclusive; they cannot both be true at the same time. If god is perfect and all knowing, then his knowledge cannot be wrong. He knows everything that's going to happen in the future for all of time; his future is fixed. If god knows tomorrow that he is going to go to the mall at 5:00, then he cannot decide to go at 6:00 instead because that would mean his knowledge was wrong about going at 5:00. In other words, god has no free will, he cannot make decisions. If god cannot make decisions, he cannot do what is best for us and he is not a personal being that watches over us and cares about us. If god cannot make decisions than he cannot choose right over wrong; he is not a moral being. The god of the Bible has properties that contradict one another, proving that he cannot possibly exist. The god of the Bible doesn't exist just like a square circle, a 4 pointed triangle, and a married bachelor don't exist.

Answer 2

Here is one that does not disprove that God exists. It does question exactly what God is. I asked this on Yahoo a while ago.

How do you think God's mind works?

I recently purchased a book regarding some concepts of how our brains work. It has me thinking about how God's mind works. I have not read it completely ,however, it is fascinating. (On Intelligence by Jeff Hawkins)

A few questions:
Do you think that he uses the same pattern recognition that we use for our senses? How does he interpret his senses? Does he rely on memories to make predictions? Does he have instincts? Does he have the full array of emotions that we have.


An argument that I often have is how could free will exist if God is all powerful and all knowing. This seems impossible if he created us, unless we were in someway better than him.

I also ask why God would display emotions similar to animals.

I am more likely to probe for answers which will get the believes to think outside of the box.

There are a lot of logical arguments (ie: The flood, flat earth, speaking animals, age of the earth) They seem to blow off most of the questions so I try to take more of a psychological approach.

Answer 3

Gods, which one?

Humanity has created many Gods, for example – Gods of Olympus, Ancient Egypt, Babylon and so on. Most of us are atheists about most Gods humanity has created, except the latest craze, the current God in the Bible. Learned atheists have also rejected this version of a God, but some hard-core believers still hang on, presumably until a better image of God is created by man.

Faith in God seems to be nothing more than humans attempting to run away from reality, an excuse to avoid thinking and evaluating evidence. Faith is just an emotional escape and really just a substitute for opening your eyes to reason.

Believers talk about God creating man in his own image. It’s in the Bible so it’s fact – get a grip, get real. The facts suggest the exact opposite. Man created God in his own image. I’m sure humanity will disregard this God, as they have disregarded all previous Gods, it’s just a matter of time before humanity creates another God that better serves their emotions and image.

Answer 4

Thats a tough one, but you have got some interesting answers.
Let me try...
First of all I assume that your definition of God in the context of the question is as taken in all religions ie. as an all knowing, all powerful, merciful being. These words are oxymorons when seen in light of what actually goes on in life. You have children born with congineital defects, born blind, with cancer, suffering badly etc. Is it possible that a "merciful" God would give so much suffering to an innocent child?. Then so many innocent people are killed or suffer for no fault of theirs. Why would a "just" God allow that?. Millions of people pray to God daily. Does God answer their prayers as all religions would lead us to believe? If he did then people in religious countries would be better off in all aspects as compared to those countries which are not as religious. However facts tell otherwise. For example the function of how long the people of a country live is largely determined by its per capita income (which implies better health care, better nutrition etc.) than how religious it is.
Viewed in this light I would say that the concept of God as expounded in religions just does not bear out and such a God cannot exist.
However you CAN have a model of God slightly different from one that is expounded in classical religions and which explains several questions which the God of classical religions cannot answer. How about one who has made the basic rules and constants in the universe such as the force of gravity and its value (9.81 m/sec squared), existence of light & its speed, planck's constant... etc. and left it at that. Much like the programs or equations I write. I myself do not know what values someone will feed into the equations and the results he gets. This God truly lets you free.
This is not to say that I actually believe in the concept, but it is something that just came to my mind.

Answer 5

Great question...

Logical arguments for a lack of something's existence...that strikes me as slightly counter-intuitive.

If, in my mind, something doesn't exist, then logical arguments to verify that seem redundant.

Quantum physics analogies such as Schrodinger's Cat are a useful analogy......if I can't see it, what happens behind those metaphysical closed doors? in terms of faith: I can't see it, so I don't care...

Then again, I still answered the question, so am I being a hypocrite?

Answer 6

perfect argument for God i think of is "how would desire to the enormous bang come from no longer something? there would desire to have been a different mover to get issues going" additionally the way that issues in nature look to extra healthful mutually, its chaotic, in spite of the undeniable fact that it has the feel of prepared chaos, the way existence renews and recycles, can each and all the full thing approximately existence be in basic terms a random coincidence? perfect argument against for my area is the no data argument, and specially the "why does not God heal amputees?" argument, whether many human beings have recovered from terminal ailments or have been saved in techniques that look "mind-blowing" It by no ability stands as much as no longer trouble-free technology a minimum of no longer in a one hundred% way, nonetheless, there are lots of "coincidence" that to me, it factors to a supernatural worldwide, this does not in spite of the undeniable fact that, teach my or all of us Else's own G(g)od or view of the supernatural, considering the fact that all faiths have experienced such "miracles"

Answer 7

Good question. The main argument here is about creationist or natural evolutionary forces. If you can not conceive the idea that everything around you, just evolve naturally, and nobody create it. The question will be; who created the creator. If it must be a creator, also should be the creator of the creator... or not?

Answer 8

Depends on your faith here but logical argument for the disproof that the Creationalist believe in is simple: oil......

They believe that the earth has been in existance for a few thousand years but given that there would be no oil in which to drive their car, plastic to use to make household items, machines in which to lubricate, the list is endless. What they fail to understand is that simple little tiny fossils allow us to recognise various 'ages' in the rock and help us determine the rock types that are likely to house oil. But then again their logic would be that god put it there.....

Answer 9

My proof for the bible and God is simple. Pragmatist's view:-
Over the last 2000 odd years many people have refuted and challenged the bible and its teaching. No-one yet has proved it to be wrong.

Realists view:- Belief in God is about Faith not proof. You will not get proof that God exists until he comes again. Then you will be judged according to your faith or lack there of. It's your choice, you can believe or not believe. Have faith or not have faith. Love God or not love God. God will not force anyone to believe in him. Then when he comes again, he will not force anyone to go with him either. I know what is here now and what is coming soon. I prefer to put my faith in God rather than the alternative. Even if you choose not to believe, god still loves you and sent Jesus to die for you too. www.mpbc.org.au

Answer 10

There are many reasoned arguments. Most don't add up in the end anyway.
Instead, the best ones are the ones that try to prove themselves correct. and even then they lack something or another.