How do you get free-will and predestination to fit together?

Answer 1

knowing what will happen is completely different than controlling what will happen

Answer 2

They DON'T fit together. That's why there is such disagreement between the "free will" camps and the "predestination" camps.

We can either freely make our own choices, and accept the consequences, OR, we just play out the part set before us, regardless of what we think or decide.

If "predestination" is really true, then God would be unjust to bring eternal judgement on His creatures for their "choices". That is why I disagree with it. The whole theology makes God unjust, and at fault for all the ills of the world. Mankind has neither culpability nor responsibility, if "predestination" is true.

Answer 3

The free will is over the predestination. Because if you believe in Christ your destination is heaven ,so automatically your are predestined to heaven. Based on your free will to choose.
So if you don't choose to believe in Christ you are destined to an eternity away from Him. Use your free will to become a Christian and be smart.

Answer 4

It can only be done from a non-dualist perspective. If I accept the perspectve in many Eastern religions that there is only one existence, this question disappears; here's how:

From this perspective, there is one ocean of being (some might say "God') and everything that exists in this universe is a wave on that ocean. Everything is (metaphorically) water. From the perspective of the individual waves, there is only destiny. But, if we develop our awareness to realize that all is water, if we learn to identify with the ocean, then there is nothing but us, therefore there is nothing "outside" to determine our actions or state. Our individual destiny is then seen as a product of the free will of the ocean, which is us. Free will and destiny become the same thing.

Answer 5

'Omniscience' is logically incompatible with 'free will'. 'Omniscience', all by itself, is sufficient to put the lid on 'free will'; omnipresence and omnipotence are irrelevant. It is not necessary for god to intervene in order to negate 'free will' as a possibility. Omniscience negates free will all by itself.

If we really DO have 'free will', then an omniscient god is logically excluded. The logical fallacy lies in the premise that if god is omniscient, all outcomes are already known to god... everything that you think, decide and do... and everything that you WILL think, decide, and do.

For an omniscient being, all of existence over all of time is laid out as a tapestry before him... past, present and future, down to the smallest detail of material, of thought and of deed, and all is constantly in his awareness. There is no past, present and future from that perspective... there is only an eternal 'now'.

If that is the case, since god already knows everything that will happen, then everything is already decided... and as we go along through life, we are merely doing what has already been seen by god. Since god knows and sees everything that will happen, NOTHING that we think or do can be contrary to what god already sees and knows. We might THINK we have free will... but since we are merely acting out what god already sees and knows, this can be no more than an ILLUSION of free will.

Put another way, if you come to a point of decision, you have no choice but to take the path that god already knows you will take... there is no other option. That works all the way down the path of cause-and-effect... and, along the way, it even casts doubt on the validity of the concept of cause and effect. I don't want to get into that, though... it makes my hair hurt.

So, imagine that since before time began, since before the universe was created, god has 'known' that you would come to a point of decision at some spatial and temporal coordinate, and that faced with the possible paths A and B, you would take path A.

Now, during the course of your life, you arrive at that spatial and temporal coordinate where this choice exists. You evaluate the potential outcomes, and you have it in your head that you have 'free will', and thus, you are free to choose between path A and path B. However, since god is 'omniscient', and god 'knows' that you will take path 'A', then path B IS NOT an option... it IS NOT a matter of choice... it is a 'NECESSITY'. OF NECESSITY, you WILL take path A. Not 'must'... not 'can'... WILL take path A. You DO NOT have a choice. Path B is NOT an option... it is not even a POSSIBILITY. The best that you can achieve is the ILLUSION that you are free to choose.

So, either god is omniscient OR we have free will. It is QUITE IMPOSSIBLE for BOTH of these conditions to coexist.

The only way out of this logical dilemma is to limit god's power; i.e., start taking away things that god can see and know, until we get to a point where free will BECOMES a possibility. But when we start doing that, then he ceases to be omniscient... and thus ceases to be a 'supreme being'.

So... free will is an impossibility concomitant with an omniscient diety. The following sums up the possibilities:

1. There is no omniscient diety... therefore, the whole argument is stupid and irrelevant.

2. IF we possess 'free will' AND god exists, THEN, of necessity, it is IMPOSSIBLE that god is omniscient. (This does not preclude the notion of 'god'... it just means that he can't be as 'supreme' as one might think he is... or wish him to be.) You are (logically) obliged to acknowledge that god CAN NOT BE all knowing... and since omniscience is one of the things that makes god 'all powerful', then this means that god CAN NOT BE omnipotent, either.

3. IF god exists AND god is omniscient THEN, OF NECESSITY, it is IMPOSSIBLE that that we have free will, and you are (metaphorically speaking) nothing more than a piece on god's eternal game board; and, thus, "... man is not responsible for his actions."

Personally, I vote for number 1. You can pick any one you want... but YOU MUST PICK ONE, because there are NO OTHER possible outcomes... NO OTHER logically valid choices.

It is unfortunate (for the Abrahamic death cults of desert monotheism) that the concepts of god were solidified as dogma a few thousand years before the philosophical discipline of 'logic' was dreamed up by the Greeks. Those that concocted the religion did not have access to the intellectual tools that would have enabled them to realize that they had 'screwed the pooch' with respect to assigning god's impossible attributes. It wasn't until the 4th century that this logical impossibility garnered serious attention, and churchmen got their theological 'dancin' shoes' on, trying to weasel their way out of the logical dilemma.

They did not succeed, and this issue continues to be debated even 'til this day. This logical dilemma (and the resulting 'cognitive dissonance') was a key element in some of the various 'heresies' that were spawned in the early days of Christianity.

However, the simple observation that these impossible beliefs still exist shows that this does not seem to have been a very big hindrance, under the simple expediency that "There is no problem so big that we cannot ignore it, until it will go away." Too bad for them, though... it DOESN'T go away.

Corporate religion is helped along by the fact that most 'believers' do not employ logic or critical thinking skills; heck... that's why they're believers in the first place. If they employed logic and critical thinking, they WOULD NOT BE believers. So, even though these concepts create a logical impossibility, it does not seem to present a significant problem for them.

Answer 6

You don't. Free Will means you have a choice. Pre Destination means no matter what you do the same thing is going to happen. I think you may be confusing pre destination with God's Omniscience Ability to know what choice your Free Will is going to make. Lets face it, God isn't one of us and we can't totally understand him.

Answer 7

Predestination is everything you cannnot choose with freewill such as when where you were born, gender, the birth of Christ, scriptures etc.

Answer 8

We were predestined to have free-will.

Answer 9

I don't think that they can. Free Will is the way of a just God.

Answer 10

Being outside of time, God knows what was, is, and what will be. While time is, we have free will.

Answer 11

Same way you get immortality and resurrection to fit.