Is free will...?

Question

...one of the sickest things a god could've given humans. Like, if I said to you: "I give you the option to be killed and tortured forever", what would you think?

Knowing that this world has 6.5 billion people in it (not including me), of course some people are going to make bad choices. (Bernd Jürgen Armando Brandes for example) So why would a supposedly "loving" god give us the option to burn in hell forever that he knew two thirds of the world would take? Sounds like a pretty angry guy to me...

Why would god give us free will?

Answer 1

'Omniscience' is logically incompatible with 'free will'. 'Omniscience', all by itself, is sufficient to put the lid on 'free will'; omnipresence and omnipotence are irrelevant. It is not necessary for god to intervene in order to negate 'free will' as a possibility. Omniscience negates free will all by itself.

If we really DO have 'free will', then an omniscient god is logically excluded. The logical fallacy lies in the premise that if god is omniscient, all outcomes are already known to god... everything that you think, decide and do... and everything that you WILL think, decide, and do.

For an omniscient being, all of existence over all of time is laid out as a tapestry before him... past, present and future, down to the smallest detail of material, of thought and of deed, and all is constantly in his awareness. There is no past, present and future from that perspective... there is only an eternal 'now'.

If that is the case, since god already knows everything that will happen, then everything is already decided... and as we go along through life, we are merely doing what has already been seen by god. Since god knows and sees everything that will happen, NOTHING that we think or do can be contrary to what god already sees and knows. We might THINK we have free will... but since we are merely acting out what god already sees and knows, this can be no more than an ILLUSION of free will.

Put another way, if you come to a point of decision, you have no choice but to take the path that god already knows you will take... there is no other option. That works all the way down the path of cause-and-effect... and, along the way, it even casts doubt on the validity of the concept of cause and effect. I don't want to get into that, though... it makes my hair hurt.

So, imagine that since before time began, since before the universe was created, god has 'known' that you would come to a point of decision at some spatial and temporal coordinate, and that faced with the possible paths A and B, you would take path A.

Now, during the course of your life, you arrive at that spatial and temporal coordinate where this choice exists. You evaluate the potential outcomes, and you have it in your head that you have 'free will', and thus, you are free to choose between path A and path B. However, since god is 'omniscient', and god 'knows' that you will take path 'A', then path B IS NOT an option... it IS NOT a matter of choice... it is a 'NECESSITY'. OF NECESSITY, you WILL take path A. Not 'must'... not 'can'... WILL take path A. You DO NOT have a choice. Path B is NOT an option... it is not even a POSSIBILITY. The best that you can achieve is the ILLUSION that you are free to choose.

So, either god is omniscient OR we have free will. It is QUITE IMPOSSIBLE for BOTH of these conditions to coexist.

The only way out of this logical dilemma is to limit god's power; i.e., start taking away things that god can see and know, until we get to a point where free will BECOMES a possibility. But when we start doing that, then he ceases to be omniscient... and thus ceases to be a 'supreme being'.

So... free will is an impossibility concomitant with an omniscient diety. The following sums up the possibilities:

1. There is no omniscient diety... therefore, the whole argument is stupid and irrelevant.

2. IF we possess 'free will' AND god exists, THEN, of necessity, it is IMPOSSIBLE that god is omniscient. (This does not preclude the notion of 'god'... it just means that he can't be as 'supreme' as one might think he is... or wish him to be.) You are (logically) obliged to acknowledge that god CAN NOT BE all knowing... and since omniscience is one of the things that makes god 'all powerful', then this means that god CAN NOT BE omnipotent, either.

3. IF god exists AND god is omniscient THEN, OF NECESSITY, it is IMPOSSIBLE that that we have free will, and you are (metaphorically speaking) nothing more than a piece on god's eternal game board; and, thus, "... man is not responsible for his actions."

Personally, I vote for number 1. You can pick any one you want... but YOU MUST PICK ONE, because there are NO OTHER possible outcomes... NO OTHER logically valid choices.

It is unfortunate (for the Abrahamic death cults of desert monotheism) that the concepts of god were solidified as dogma a few thousand years before the philosophical discipline of 'logic' was dreamed up by the Greeks. Those that concocted the religion did not have access to the intellectual tools that would have enabled them to realize that they had 'screwed the pooch' with respect to assigning god's impossible attributes. It wasn't until the 4th century that this logical impossibility garnered serious attention, and churchmen got their theological 'dancin' shoes' on, trying to weasel their way out of the logical dilemma.

They did not succeed, and this issue continues to be debated even 'til this day. This logical dilemma (and the resulting 'cognitive dissonance') was a key element in some of the various 'heresies' that were spawned in the early days of Christianity.

However, the simple observation that these impossible beliefs still exist shows that this does not seem to have been a very big hindrance, under the simple expediency that "There is no problem so big that we cannot ignore it, until it will go away." Too bad for them, though... it DOESN'T go away.

Corporate religion is helped along by the fact that most 'believers' do not employ logic or critical thinking skills; heck... that's why they're believers in the first place. If they employed logic and critical thinking, they WOULD NOT BE believers. So, even though these concepts create a logical impossibility, it does not seem to present a significant problem for them.

Answer 2

God is not human... I hate it when people give him human characteristics like hate without good reason and a spiteful side which just does horrible things, just to do them... That is all human. We ask these questions of other things, because we are exercising our limitations and judging ourselves objectively through the actions (or so called actions) of something outside ourselves. Maybe you should begin asking this question by removing the word God and inserting yourself in his place then ask this same thing of yourself. Do YOU pose ultimatums too? are you linear in your thought process? Rigid? un yielding? Unforgiving... demanding? Opinionated? What problems has it caused you in your life? Girl leave you because of it?

It is by this line of questioning that we essentially sort ourselves out...

God is energy and vibration... He is not found in YOUR choices as a human being, He only responds to them accordingly. Can you honestly imagine and would you honestly prefer a God who refused you, your free will?

If the tables were turned, you as a human (lacking the God based insight ) would piss and gripe about NOT having free will so... What is the answer you want to hear? God is a loving God, but He is Just... and works within His own laws, not against them.

Their had to be both Good and Evil, their had to be a choice or else what would any of us be worth to Him? Drones, worker bee's, slaves. We are the only ones of His creations which were given His power in that we create consciously... With intent. Not instinctually. We are made in His image, with the ability to think and reason and this question is the very best you can do?

Quit griping... were not here all that long. Try and enjoy what you have, quit blaming everything on God and get over yourself.

Answer 3

Free will is, to a large extent, an illusion.
Every action is caused by something. If for example a cup fell off the table, it would be because something caused it to fall. Whatever caused the cup to fall would, in turn, have been caused by something else. This can be extrapolated backwards indefinitely.
The same logic can be applied to human actions.
Given a large enough computer, one could gather all causes and effects that ever occurred and predict what someone was going to do next with very high accuracy.
(This can only work in the short term as quantum physics shows us that cause and effect aren't always linked. This would mean small inaccuracies over a short prediction period, growing exponentially larger as the prediction time grows. This can be seen clearly in weather forecasting)

Answer 4

This is a subject to which NO ONE can have a sure answer. If you believe that God is real then you live by the bible. Now if you dont believe God is real then you live by Karma. Hmmmm ... with everything going on it makes it almost impossible to believe in anything. Just try to do your best in life. Just live trying to do no harm to one another and do good. Spread happiness and love everywhere you go. So when you die you will be remembered as such :)

Answer 5

free will tests us, he cant just let everyone back into heaven when we die. We have to find Christ first and then we have to use our free will to make Godly choices. Life would be pointless without free will, the whole point of free will is for people to decide on their own, Think about it like this, God wanted to create a world where everything was perfect, free will messed it up, he made free will to make us admit that we arent perfect, so that we can accept his salvation by laying down our will and desiring to live by his will!

Answer 6

See. I have learned along my christian life that the God that you believe in is only based on the Father you had growing up. If your own father was dysfunctional, then you look at God as being the same way. One must learn that God is LOVING .. and nothing like dysfunctional.. he loves you unconditionally.
Therefore.. I believe in the 'CWG' beliefs.. and there is no such thing as hell. Hell was made up by men who wanted their wife's to behave, so by telling them in a bible that there is a hell would put the fear into them and make them want to behave. There is 'no' Hell.. only dimensions.

Answer 7

God sent us here to learn how to be like Him. Good choices increase our knowledge and enjoyment. Bad choices increase our ignorance and misery. God lets us choose until we learn to always make the right choice. It doesn't always work that cleanly in this life, but it is the overriding principle that governs our species.

Answer 8

THOR SAYS "God gave did not give usfree will, that contradicts the single reason for God creating everything....it is all a part of the Grand Plan, His perfect design for the cosmos..if there is a grand plan, and God is omnipotent, then Free Will is an illusion, God must have wanted us to do it"

THOR SAYS "Try telling that to a Christian...they will get a migrane"

Answer 9

What, then, would be the point of experiencing life? If we were programmed to be robots, unable to think for ourselves, we'd be dead, anyway.

Free will allows us the opportunity to really live. With that being said, God is fully aware that we're going to screw up. He gives us an out - repentance.

Answer 10

If i'll get of project to make a undertaking loose to might magogi ki mujhay bhaut sara nutrition miley jo ki might un garib human beings's might baat saku jinay ki nutrition nahi mil tha or bina nutrition kay hi mar ja thay hai.