Why are we now turning on our own kind? A Wiccan friend sent me an email she got from someone else on here that says they are Wiccan. This person told my friend that everything she believed and followed was wrong, just because she wasn't initiated into a coven. This person also went on to say that everything my friend had been taught was from unreliable sources and that she needed to study more. I'm sorry, I don't think of myself as an unreliable source, seeing as how everything I taught her was what I learned from my Priestess. Why are we being so ugly to each other?
2006-09-05 19:18:58 · 21 answers · asked by Moon Goddess 1 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Yes, Epona Willow, I thought you would. She told me about talking to you too. I'm just very upset that everything I've taught her is being called into question.
2006-09-05 19:29:06 · update #1
Jadea, she wasn't harrassing you. Disagreeing with something someone may have said and telling that person so, is not harrassment.
2006-09-06 08:05:42 · update #2
As a solitary Celtic pagan I will try and give a more simple reason for this.
We are falling into the same oneupmanship that the Christians are doing. by splitting hairs over the different sects that make up the whole of the Wiccan Philosophy. our coven is more right than yours.
2006-09-05 19:34:28 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 6⤊ 3⤋
The problem is that there are differing mindsets within the community. It causes problems because, in some case, the viewpoints are diametrically opposed. In this case, one side goes with the Traditional view of Wicca, in that it's an initiate-only religion; the other hold a more neo-Wicca view, where initiation isn't important. The problem comes down to, essentially, two similar yet different things that try to use the same name.
I've seen the issue of the opposing viewpoints come up in a lot of places. Many authors and leaders in the community present views that they have a vested interest in, and quite often these views get presented as fact, whether or not they have a factual basis. People who accept those beliefs and follow them face a double-issue when challenged - not only are their beliefs being challenged, but they feel betrayed that they're being challenged by other Pagans.
I don't know how to prevent it without several things happening. First is, as always, more studying and learning - a wider set of information (and the associated skills to parse it) will help people make the appropriate choices. The second is more precision in our self-labelling, so that people become aware of the fact that some divides do exist, and the reasoning behind them. And the third is to hold the leaders and authors accountable when they intentionally mislead people - because that does happen.
If we can start by being informed and up-front with people, then we can move forward and aim for coexistance.
2006-09-06 04:30:00 · answer #2 · answered by ArcadianStormcrow 6 · 3⤊ 1⤋
Unlike a lot of other religions, Wicca has no central authority, it is completely decentralized and most Wiccans believe in freedom of belief. However, there is what Christians call 'apostolic succession.' The original modern Wiccans during the sixties started groups called covens. These covens borrowed some of their structure from the Masonic movement and had three levels of initiation. You had to be initiated into an existing coven to be an official Wiccan.
One historical reason for this is the real or perceived persecution that Wiccans experience in most societies. When Gerald Gardner first started Wicca, it was illegal under some archaic laws in the UK, only repealed during the sixties. So Wiccans took on some of the aspects of an underground group.
Today, Wicca, although it is not fully accepted, has achieved legal status in some of the developed countries and this is not as neccessary.
Many Wiccans still believe that you must be initiated by an existing coven. However, because many people who are drawn to Wiccan ideas don't live anywhere near an active coven, there have developed alternatives for these practioners, or 'solitaries.'
If someone is attempting to harrass you because you are not initiated into a coven this goes against the spirit of Wicca, which is not monolithic in the way that Christian churches are. Perhaps this person was originally a Christian and has assumed that Wiccans are just another kind of centralized religion. However this is not the case.
2006-09-05 20:11:38 · answer #3 · answered by brujo999 2 · 3⤊ 2⤋
Oooh, that's one thing that really burns my butt. The Wiccans who go around insulting others just because they haven't been initiated into Lady Moonbeam Dizzledazzle's coven or whatnot. There are lots of Wiccans around who don't believe anyone who hasn't been initiated into a coven (and even some who specify a couple of particular Traditions) is Wiccan. They tend to have delusions of grandeur and a superiority complex. I've actually had the phrase "You aren't Wiccan. You're just another New Ager Neo-Pagan." spat at me. Grrr.
I'm sorry, but initiation isn't the be-all end-all of Wicca! Neither is where a person can trace their coven lineage down to (which most of the time are actually fake claims). I don't know why they feel they can pick on others. Covens are neither more nor less powerful than Solitaries. I've done more powerful working alone than I've ever done when trying to work with someone. It may be the opposite for someone else. That doesn't mean that either is invalid!
Tell your friend that the person who attacked her is an idiot. It's been going on for years, and probably won't stop. I've been bitched out countless times by Wiccaner-than-thous who think they're above me just because I don't drop trou with a crowd of other people every time I work/worship/celebrate. This is the exact problem that caused me to make a place for Solitaries to talk without being attacked for simply not being associated with a coven, and to write quite a few essays on stupidity for my site.
2006-09-05 19:40:38 · answer #4 · answered by ChiChi 6 · 4⤊ 2⤋
even in pagan coltures many people feel that their way is the only way. they are status and power hungry. these people usually claim to have some great lost knowledge that noone else has and so on.
Wicca seems to have a large number of people like this, i do not think that this is a problem with the religion. but a problem with the large exposure that Wicca has had since movies and tv shows like The Craft and Buffy started delving into it.
It is a very open religion that allows people to form and run their own covens, I really wish that i had a dollar for every 12 to 15 year old that i have met that claimed to be a high priest or priestess of Wicca. not to say that this is impossible, but the large majority of these Kids could not hold a circle if their lives depended on it. they do not realise that they simply have not lived long enough to have the experiences that create the knowlege to be a religious leader. Some have learned and attained these rights, but they are the vast minority....
when these people learn some humility, they may be ready to be a leader. however most leaders will fight against being called a leader, not try desperatly for the title.
wow i am ranting..i will stop now.
2006-09-05 19:38:25 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 2⤋
DAVID_G is right on the money, but I'd like to take it one step further by saying that ugly people are in every walk of life, be it religiously based or not. People simply like to feel special, and in order to do this they put on elitist attudes. Initiation, no matter how many capital letters you use, doesn't make you a spiritually successful person, and the sourness *some* people put forward (you know who you are) is very unwitchly. Now, I'm not a wiccan, but rather something of an existential atheist, but this phenomenon is pretty much the same everywhere. You see, I'm a "punk" (yes, piercings, mohawk, and of course punk music, the whole 9), and there's definitely a lot of punkier than thous too. The best advice I can give you is to remember that your beliefs are personal, between you and your god (gods, goddesses, gods and goddesses, flying spaghetti monster, whatever), ignore the arrogance of others, don't lose your own humility (and become one of THEM), and don't get lost in hierarchy. A coven just means you have friends that share your beliefs. A priestess just means you have a little bit of a helping hand. Don't resign yourself to the ideas of these specific people, or make them out to be bigger than they really are.
2006-09-05 20:02:54 · answer #6 · answered by ethical_atheist 3 · 2⤊ 2⤋
The question asked was for opinions about being in a coven. The asker specified that she was not interested in Neo-Wicca. Perhaps the asker didn't even understand what Neo-Wicca meant.
http://www.witches-tutorial.com/paths/neowicca.html
Some responses were from those familiar with Neo-Wicca and some were from those familiar with traditional Wicca. I think both paths can be rewarding even though they are different and I respect the opinions of others even if I do not always agree with them. To me, it sounded like an opportunity to learn about other's beliefs. I do not feel threatened by learning about other people's views or the history of different religions. I am a neo-pagan but I have never practiced Wicca. Still, I enjoy reading about the different views of people and understanding why they believe as they do. I see nothing wrong with studying and I still learn something new every day.
So a Wiccan has views that you do not agree with. Are you going to live and let live, look into the subject to try to understand their views, or criticize them?
2006-09-05 22:45:51 · answer #7 · answered by Witchy 7 · 2⤊ 2⤋
I know exactly what you are referring to. And I emailed her telling her that it was rather sad that she would be telling anyone those ludicrous stories. I told her I think her coven may have done a bit of brainwashing to her and she might just want to look into a coven that's not so close-minded. I know much about Wicca. I have studied it and still do. I don't know why she feels that anyone not initiated into a coven is not Wiccan. Here is her response:
It's rather sad
Message: What is actually pretty sad is that people are unable to step out of their comfort zone, they read books written by people cashing in on Wicca, decide this is what Wicca is, and refuse to let go to that idea and study Wicca seriously.
I am no more brainwashed by my coven than anyone who is Wicca is brainwashed, Wicca is not something that is made up as you go along, it has points that define what it is – when someone does not follow the beliefs, practices, doctrines, mysteries or even gods that Wicca follow there is nothing at all that defines them as Wicca – they are simply taking the term to look 'cool' without knowing anything about the priesthood.
I would suggest you learn a little about Wicca before making blanket statements about how the Wicca community feel, I think you will find that every single Wicca will say exactly the same as I have – that would be those who actually follow Wicca, not people who disrespect Wicca by stealing their title for their own gain.
2006-09-05 19:28:26 · answer #8 · answered by Spookshow Baby 5 · 3⤊ 3⤋
********** NEWS FLASH!!!! **********
You CAN'T be Wiccan without initiation.
In telling people otherwise that makes YOU ugly as well as ignorant and offensive towords a religion you claim to know about or perhaps even be…yet at the same time a beautiful religion you choose to close yourself off to.
You say your priestess taught you about Wicca….what does she know, is she Wicca herself or simply someone else claiming to be Wicca? What's her lineage? What's her tradition? If wiccan why didn't she ever tell you about the basics of wicca?
This is NOT turning on people it is trying to protect wicca from more misinformation and protecting wicca from people who take the name wiccan for no reason other than fad value. If you don't understand that then you have no place complaining about anything being ugly as your helping make it that way. Turning against each other is ugly, so whats your excuse for turning against wicca?
2006-09-06 03:01:17 · answer #9 · answered by ? 3 · 2⤊ 3⤋
Its amazing how I think most Witches have heard a story similar to this. That no one is a true Wiccan without being initiated etc etc. Its all crap. Especially since Bucklands Big Blue Book came out, heck when you are done reading it and doing the 'homework' you are a 3rd degree Wiccan.
Nothing drives me nuts more than people who previously admited they were newbies to the path, come back a short time later claiming all knowing all seeing complete understanding of this same path. And how if you don't follow exactly their word down to the letter, you are nothing.
Just remember that Karma does come back around to bite them, HARD!
2006-09-05 20:05:39 · answer #10 · answered by fuguee.rm 3 · 3⤊ 2⤋