To those that stick to the Trinity?

Question

I think we all agree god is all knowing. One who doesn't know everything is not all knowing.

So i would say its fair to say if someone is not all knowing he/she is not a god.

That settled.. then lets look at

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of
heaven, but My Father only." [Mathew 24:36]


so the father only knows.. so its fair to say the father is the only god. since the "Father only" knows everything.

Tina, if the Father is the holy spirit.. then why do you say in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit.

to Rasco:

If one was to reject a messenger wouldn't he in effect be rejecting god?

Similarly i think from that statement devil testing Jesus he is testing the Father...Furthermore, the term lord and god have been used not necessarily mean lord or god.

for instance in 2 Cor 4:4

"in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Good News of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn on them."

are we then to believe the devil is the god of this world. .. does that mean he is a God?

"It makes sense to me that during the time God manifested Himself in the human form of Jesus, there had to be a human mind in Jesus, or he couldn't have fully identified with the human race."

I couldn't disagree anymore, The Father. is all knowing. he knows everything. If he didn't know what its like to be human.. he could never judge us. ie he could never be fair in judging humans

'betterdeadthansorry':

These three identities. do you mean like phases? In other words the same person going through different phases. If so i presume you also believe these phases exist simultaneously.

If they dont' exist simultaneously then you would need to explain why Jesus was praying to the father? if he was in the phase of "man"

and the statement

"Not my will, but your will be done," who was he talking to?

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." John 17

and many others ..

If they do exist simultaneously then how is that different from three separate gods ?

Serving Jesus:

"For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells
bodily"
Colossains 2:9 so he had fullness of the god head so i don't see him giving up anything.

betterdead: then what is the significance of the word bodily.

I understood that meaning when he was alive. hence the term bodily.

Even so, that doesn't state that he gave up his godhead while he was alive.

Or am i wrong?

Answer 1

Philippians 2:5 -8
Your attitude should be the save as that of Christ Jesus. Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant being made in human likeness, and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death -- even death on a cross!

The word "grasped" can also be translated retained or held onto.

Jesus was not 100% God, 100% man, as some claim; He was 100% man - while He was on earth. He gave up being God to become a man. His glory has been restored now that He is back with the Father.

Therefore, while Christ was on earth, He was not all knowing. It seems to me, although I don't know of any verse that would say one way or another, that He was not all powerful, either. I believe that His miracles were done through the Holy Spirit.

***Edit***

Actually, you just proved my point. In Philippians we see that He gave up equality to God to become a man. In the verse you just quoted we see that He is no longer in that state. Colossians 2:9 is certainly not talking about Christ while he was on Earth. Paul was writing after Christ had returned to heaven, and He was saying, "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity LIVES (present tense) in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ (as a Christian - post ascention)..."

You refuted nothing I've said, but only given more examples that support my response to your question.

***Edit #2***

There are many interpretations of the word "bodily" - some believe that Christ still has some sort of physical body. Others say that it is there simply to give the image of the "body of Christ" which is the church - which makes sense with the next verse, which talks about Christians being in Christ. Still others don't think it means anything but a phrase meaning that all essence of Deity is found in Christ (it embodies Him). No matter how you look at it, this is in the present tense, talking about Christ's current situation. No, Colossians does not talk about Him giving up His deity when He was alive. Colossians isn't talking about that at all. In context, the passage in Colossians is talking about Christians having power of God in them, so they should not be decieved by philosophies and deceit. It is the verse in Philippians that states He gave up His Deity.

Hebrews also gives reference to Jesus becoming lower than the angels, another reference to His temporary stripping of His equality to God.

I don't pretend to completely understand all the implications of this, nor can I answer every question one could raise. But I can say this: The Bible gives enough reason why Christ would not know certain things while in the flesh to make it a non-issue concerning His ultimate Deity.

Answer 2

Do you even understand what the Trinity is or what it means?

God is one person/being, but with three distinct identities. There is the Father who knows and creates everything, the Son who redeems, and the Holy Spirit who guides. These three, while seemingly different are in fact just titles for the same one God who rules. The best analogy I can use is the idea of the triple threat man or one who does many different things. This anyway is what most Christians would really mean when they say the Trinity, not three distinct gods like what most people (even some Christians) may think.

This is by the way just a layman's view of it. You may want to hear from a more authoratative source if you are intent on understanding it.

Answer 3

Good question, Jamal. Here is my response:

Jesus spoke these words after His death, burial, and resurrection: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

It makes sense to me that during the time God manifested Himself in the human form of Jesus, there had to be a human mind in Jesus, or he couldn't have fully identified with the human race.

After Jesus was victorious in completing what He set out to do, He once again shared the mind of God.

I may be way off here, but this is how I see it at this point in my walk with the Lord.

Answer 4

Only the Father decides what time it will come. The Son and the Holy Spirit are also god. In times of crisis or spiritual battle, the Holy Spirit does prompt you. For Jesus, Matthew 4:7. He specifically says 'do not put the Lord your God to the test.' Jesus was being tempted by satan.

The idea of a trinity is difficult to understand, that three beings are one god, and one god exists in three forms. Therefore I am not one to say Jesus and the Holy spirit cannot be God because of the pre-stated fact that God knows everything. But is it not possible that God knows everything except the Father's decision when the time is to come?

Edit>> Jesus could save himself, but he did not. If he did save himself, he would not have exchanged his blood for our lives. I don't know about Catholism, for I myself have no denomination, but Mary is not considered God.

I say I would trust in Jesus, precisely because he could save himself, but thinking of mankind did not.

Answer 5

THE TRINITY CONCEPT IS DECEPTION AND GOD AND JESUS IS ONE ONLY IN THE WAY THEY THINK, THE PLAN FOR MANKIND. IT IS GOD THE FATHER AND JESUS THE SON. GOD IS A FAMILY AND IS REPRODUCING HISSELF WITH THOSE WHO KEEP HIS LAWS.
It may first be noted that the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” (KJ) found in older translations at 1 John 5:7 are actually spurious additions to the original text. A footnote in The Jerusalem Bible, a Catholic translation, says that these words are “not in any of the early Greek MSS [manuscripts], or any of the early translations, or in the best MSS of the Vulg[ate] itself.” A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, by Bruce Metzger (1975, pp. 716-718), traces in detail the history of the spurious passage. It states that the passage is first found in a treatise entitled Liber Apologeticus, of the fourth century, and that it appears in Old Latin and Vulgate manuscripts of the Scriptures, beginning in the sixth century. Modern translations as a whole, both Catholic and Protestant, do not include them in the main body of the text, because of recognizing their spurious nature.—RS, NE, NAB.

Other evidence of its impersonal nature. Further evidence against the idea of personality as regards the holy spirit is the way it is used in association with other impersonal things, such as water and fire (Mt 3:11; Mr 1:8); and Christians are spoken of as being baptized “in holy spirit.” (Ac 1:5; 11:16) Persons are urged to become “filled with spirit” instead of with wine. (Eph 5:18) So, too, persons are spoken of as being ‘filled’ with it along with such qualities as wisdom and faith (Ac 6:3, 5; 11:24) or joy (Ac 13:52); and holy spirit is inserted, or sandwiched in, with a number of such qualities at 2 Corinthians 6:6. It is most unlikely that such expressions would be made if the holy spirit were a divine person. As to the spirit’s ‘bearing witness’ (Ac 5:32; 20:23), it may be noted that the same thing is said of the water and the blood at 1 John 5:6-8. While some texts refer to the spirit as ‘witnessing,’ ‘speaking,’ or ‘saying’ things, other texts make clear that it spoke through persons, having no personal voice of its own. (Compare Heb 3:7; 10:15-17; Ps 95:7; Jer 31:33, 34; Ac 19:2-6; 21:4; 28:25.)

Answer 6

Not to mention there are only 2 persons, as the Father is the Holy Spirit; 2Cor.3:16.

and Jesus was born with labor pains; Proverbs 8:24.

Answer 7

Jesus was born after Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ismael, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Moses and the numerous other Prophets (peace & blessings of God be upon all of them). If he were the Son-God, then, all of the foregoing Prophets, must have been the believers of Trinity. But the case is not like that at all. None of them was the believer of Trinity, rather, none of them, had, even, heard about the name of Trinity, in their times. Hence, Trinity is nothing else but an invented and artificial concept which has no existence, even, during the time of Jesus. It is, therefore, a rootless concept from all accounts.


During his preaching, Jesus had never called himself as God or Son-God. Now, look upon those people who consider Jesus as God or Son-God. They are, baselessly, blaming even those people who were present at the spot and knew that Jesus was not God or son-god. In other words, the people with the belief that Jesus is God or Son-god; are far more enemies of Jesus who tried to crucify him.

The people who say that Jesus is God or Son-God or in his guise, the Lord descended upon earth because of God’s love for humanity. They are, baselessly, blaming Jesus and the Lord of Jesus, the both. Jesus always said:
"Call me Jesus, Son of Mary as that is my real name."

According to Jesus, God, the Holy One; is the Saviour of the Whole mankind. God is capable (be God glorified as God is) to relive off every infliction. None of the human beings is saviour beside God. Jesus, himself is also, not a saviour at all. The people who have chosen him as their saviour__ they have denied the Holy One___ who alone is the saviour of Jesus and whole mankind and the act of choosing Jesus as saviour__ is equal to hate the Holy One___ as it is clearly written in the old Testament:-

“I am the Lord your God. Worship no God but Me. Do not make for yourself images of anything in heavens or on earth or in the water under the earth. Do not bow down to any idol or worship it. Because I am the Lord your God and I tolerate no rivals. I bring punishment on those who hate me, on their descendants, down to third and fourth generation.”
(Exodus 20:1-5)

Now, ponder over the point that whosoever says that Jesus is God___ Holy Spirit is God___ Mary is God; has he not made an idol beside the One God? While nothing is there in the earth and heavens which could be considered in terms of the One God.

Beware please! A father is a father__ a mother is a mother___ and a son is a son__ and they all are the creatures of God. They cannot be considered as God___ as god is their Creator__ and nothing is like the Lord.


The Same God is the God of Jesus who was the God of Jacob and Moses (peace & blessings of God be upon all the three). The one God, beside whom, there is no God at all.

Jesus is not the inventor of Trinity. Nor he is presenting him as one of three Gods. Nor he is telling the One God as the third of the three gods. Instead, he is openly rejecting the concept of Trinity, which stands for the following three gods.

1.The God of Moses____ Jehovah
2.The word of God_____ Jesus
3.Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost.

The Trinity is a baseless concept in terms of the Verse under reference, the verse 3 of the prayer.

Torah says,
“Remember This! The Lord and the Lord alone___ is our God.
Love the Lord your god with all your heart,
With all your soul, and with all your strength.”
(Deut 6:4-5)

“Fear the Lord your God, worship only God,
and make your promises in God’s name alone.
Do not worship other gods,
Any of the gods of the people around you.
If you do worship other gods,
The Lord’s anger will come against you
Like fire and will destroy you completely,
Because the Lord your God,
Who is present with you, tolerates no rivals.”
(Deut 6:13-14-15)

“God is a great god and (only) one to be feared.’
(Deut 7:21)

Creatures of God are God’s Creatures they can never be considered as God or as the parts of God. Same is the case of Jesus who is a creature and, as such, can not be considered as God or a part of the Creator or the son of Creator.

Jesus is not a Saviour. He is not capable, even, to save himself from his enemies. How he can be considered “All-Able” to save everyone on the earth. It is the Lord alone__ Who is the All-Able to save every creature of the universe including the mankind__ as the Lord is already saving__ each of them__ without any desolation and defect.

Answer 8

You make an excellent point and one that all trinitarians should prayerfully consider; most, however, will just want to argue with you and quote scripture to support their theory while ignoring scripture that seemingly contradicts their belief.

Great question.

Answer 9

you could be right.. but I see this as a non issue.

If we focus on this we down faith more harm than good. WE all have our own unique ideas about God and the interpretation of scripture, but it is the overall points which we find to be true.

It is good to question, but let not focus on it.