The reason I ask, is because it keeps me up at night.?

Question

Alright, as you can tell from my stream of questions, I've tried to keep in consideration the views of EVERYONE on the board in not offending and asking questions about why you believe in your faith; whether it be your upbringing, openmindedness, closemindedness, choice, etc. But the reason I ask all these questions is because it seems that some of you refute my question with "Well, the *insert holy book* says that His word is true, and no other." To me, that seems like it was read, without any consideration to any other train of thought, as absolute truth. It seems like some are too comfortable to consider anything else. If it be a sin to question the *insert holy book*, can that aforementioned sin not be forgiven? I understand that if some kind of miracle happens (physically, in a dream, whatever), then you have reason to believe. But personally, I don't think that reading a book, simply taking it's word, and calling it faith, with no other basis/reasoning, is worth believing.

No holy book verses please.

Hands of Justice, you used a bible verse. That doesn't prove anything to me.

Answer 1

OK... you asked for it. I'm going to tell you a little bit about 'belief'. There are some subtleties at work, which seem to escape the notice of most people (most people being Christians), having to do with the NATURE of 'belief', and the fact that the brains of rational people and religious people seem to be wired differently.

A rational person might say "I believe in the Big Bang." A religious person might say "I believe in creation, as described in Genesis." But these statements are not even remotely similar, with respect to what is meant by the word 'believe'.

For the rational person, the statement of 'belief' in the Big Bang means that they understand that the concept provides a scientifically and mathematically consistent explanation, congruent with the evidence, which accounts for the evolution of the universe from a fraction of a second after the initiating event, up until the present. When the 'inflationary model' came to the fore, rational people said "Well, good... that clears up a few questions and makes things even more coherent." NOBODY threw up their arms and wailed "Oh, no... oh, no... ain't so... ain't so... the Big Bang is the inerrant truth... not this ridiculous, atheistic 'inflationary' model."

See... when we say "I believe in the Big Bang", we don't really mean the same thing as the religious person means when he says "I believe in creation, as described in Genesis," or "I believe in God." Our 'belief' in the Big Bang (or anything else) isn't really a 'belief'... it is more properly a 'paradigm'... a useful way of looking at something, or thinking about something. If additional information is uncovered that adds to the conceptual model, that is a good thing... not a disaster. If part of the conceptual model is discovered to be incorrect, and must be tossed in the trash and replaced with something completely different... that is also a good thing... not the end of the world as we know it. And often, no matter how highly confident we may be of the accuracy or completeness of a particular paradigm, we may have reason to apply a DIFFERENT paradigm to the same thing, in an effort to tease out new insights; for example, we might want to contemplate the potential implications of a change to a theory from the perspective of the Tao Te Ching, the Gaia hypothesis, or ecological homeostasis. We KNOW that all theories are approximations... and that is OK. We KNOW that we don't have all the answers... and that is OK, too. There is nothing wrong with saying "We don't know... yet; but we're working on it."

But these modes of thinking, perceiving, contemplating and understanding are utterly incomprehensible to the 'religious' mind. For the religious mind, a 'belief' is not a paradigm... not a useful way of thinking about something... it is an internalized conviction that one knows the absolute 'truth' pertaining to some aspect of existence and/or fundamental reality. 'Beliefs' are one of the key interpretive component filters of the religious person's 'self-description'... a part of what DEFINES them as a person... the very thing that creates their world-view... an underpinning of their 'subjective reality'. Any challenge to one of these internalized 'beliefs' is perceived and interpreted as a vital threat... an attack upon the 'self-description'... and an assault upon their subjective reality.

And here is the key difference: When there is a change in one of the paradigms dealing with a scientific concept, or a new insight into the workings of the universe, to the 'rational' person it merely constitutes an interesting new piece of knowledge and understanding... a new insight. However, if that same new insight, or piece of information (a feature of the universe, for example) seems to threaten a tenet of Christianity, everybody goes to battle stations, goes into 'damage control' mode... for fear that the whole edifice will come crashing down. And, ultimately, it will.

So, when a fundie disparages evolution, for example, it really has nothing to do with a genuine, intellectual dispute regarding scientific details... they are generally scientifically illiterate, anyway. Any 'scientific' arguments that they present are inevitably not even understood... they are just lifted from the pre-packaged lies and misrepresentations that are found on dozens of 'Liars for Jesus' (LFJ) web sites, and parroted. They are in a battle. They are trying to sink science before science sinks them. They are desperate... and science is (mostly, and unfortunately) oblivious to the fact that they are even in a fight, and that somebody is trying to sink them. They are just blithely bopping along, doing what science does... figuring out how nature works.

No... none of this has anything to do with a mere disagreement pertaining to evidence and understanding. It has to do with minds that deal with fundamental issues in an entirely different way. It has to do with a flexible, open-minded (willing to honestly consider alternative possibilities), intellectually honest (willing to question and doubt one's own presumptions) curiosity about the universe, contending with a rigid, unyielding world-view that depends from a certainty that certain delusional faith-based (willful ignorance and magical, wishful thinking) 'beliefs' represent the absolute 'truth' of reality.

We might as well be talking to an alien species, from a distant planet.

When the religious enter a venue like this one, they are (generally) NOT seeking answers, or new information... these might cause them to QUESTION their beliefs, or might put their beliefs at risk. No... they are seeking VALIDATION... of their beliefs, and hence, of their self-description.

It seems to me that the decision you are faced with is whether to form your world-view on the basis of rationality, or on the basis of self-delusion.

*****************

"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion." ~ Robert M. Pirsig

Answer 2

God doesn't take sides. And don't even tell me her parents said no for no reason. Of course there's a reason. Maybe they don't trust the party host - but most likely they don't want her to drink or get pregnant. They see saying 'no' as keeping her out of trouble. That is the reason - and a good one. That is why they are parents you two are children. They know best. God created people and gave them free will. The test of life is what man does with that free will - some will use it wisely and some won't. God doesn't get involved and take sides in human versus human disputes. Also, if you keep trying to persuade her parents, they will see you as interfering in their relationship with their daughter and you will be seen as a bad influence, and then they won't want her spending time with you. It's possible that's already the case and their reason for not wanting her to go to this party. So, don't interfere between your friend and her parents. They are watching out for their daughter's best interests far more than you are. They are concerned about her future. You're only concerned about the present. That, too, is one of the big differences between adults and children.

Answer 3

Once again, the misconception is that people believe the bible for no reason other than "blind" faith. I think this is now the thirteen hundreth time I've said this.

I didn't used to believe the bible, I got into a bible study, and ten years later, I have come to believe it is true. I had never put that much effort into anything, reading, thinking about it, seeing if it holds up in life, is it true, can I see that it stands up, etc. And what makes you think I didn't consider anything else? Many people spend a very long time shuffling around stuff that doesn't stand the test of time or truth; I know I did!

Answer 4

Well honestly I think that not only do people who only quote things others have written lack imagination, creativity and individuality, but I think it is probably not a good idea to take a sexist book written entirely by men as the end all be all of the way to live your life. Perhaps the bible is Gods work, but even if he dictated it, men wrote it, and we are fallible.

Now I'm not saying that the bible is a horrible book, because the very basic message is good. But I think that all people feel a need to validate their beliefs whatever they are, and following the Bible to the letter is some Christians way of doing so. Atheist are afraid of being wrong, because they are screwed, and those who have religion, any religion, are afraid of being wrong, because they would have wasted their lives, even if they say that they have done good, they are afraid of this.

Answer 5

Well, I have felt the power of Jesus Christ. It is an amazing feeling. We are taught and we read about Jesus. I'm sorry that you are having such a tough time with this. Do you not believe books that you read? I mean, some are fiction, some are lies and some are the absolute truth...the Bible to me is the truth. It is an account written by different apostles of what happened while Jesus Christ walked the earth. I read to enrich my relationship with Christ. I try to live my life in a way that would be pleasing to him. I have been healed by Christ's hands. I'm sure you don't care about that but it only makes me believe more. Anyone who doesn't want to believe has that right. It's not the best choice but it is your right. If all you want to do is cause turmoil then you are obviously working for satan. That is your right too but I feel sorry for your soul...Go ahead and question our beliefs, maybe one day you will find what you are searching for and I pray it's not too late. You need to get off the fence and start serving Jesus! You would be a great asset!

Answer 6

lol, christians think the bible is magic. when i tell someone i'm an atheist they always tell me "you should read the bible"..........as if i haven't before. many times. probably more then they have. their view that the bible is magic equates with it being true in some sort of way - i can't really testify to this, being an atheist, but it's what i've observed. so to answer your question, reading a book and believing it, is a really strange way of living your life. most people don't sit down, read cujo, and believe that a dog will kill them. when you take a step back and look at things from farther away, it looks a bit silly. and this is exactly what the bible says we're going to hell for. oops.

Answer 7

I agree. I've seen far too many people tell me they wouldn't contemplate religon simply because it's a sin or that they're afraid of what they might find out. But if you ask me, that whole bit about thinking about religion being a sin kinda raises a red flag. In my experience the authorities who say "don't question me" are dangerous and whether or not they fall back on this phrase is because they don't know what they're doing or they do is irrelivant. Regardless, they're manipulative and if trusted blindly can lead to your ultimate destruction.

Answer 8

Since I'm Christian I'll try to explain from my perspective.
The Word of God is Jesus. It's Jesus who is central to the faith and the community of believers He founded ie the Church so it's not a book that's central but a Person.
Some of the witnesses of Jesus wrote down what they saw and heard ie the New Testament. These are the written Christian holy traditions, there are also oral traditions that the Church keeps teaching.
What's important is to have community with Jesus through prayer( and reading the scriptures) and the sacraments (where you meet Him in action) and in the body of Christians ie the Church.

Answer 9

You have to understand that there is more to it that "just the holy book"..the Bible..so much more than just reading...it is a life experience..a change..God reveals His presence to His people. And signs do follow them that believe.
I, for one, have seen too many things happen in my life and in the life of others, not to believe in Him..but I not only believe..I know for a fact..He is THE absolute fact...period.

Answer 10

Well, sorry you are kept up at night.....could it be you are running from God? He keeps looking for us, you know....

All I can tell you is yes, I have read the "Book", but it was CONVICTION that settled it all for me.

Like you, I too ran from God. When I stopped He settled the questions. I just gave up and said, "OK, if you are who you say you are I will follow you."