Which person has the stronger faith?

Question

1) The person who refuses to accept any evidence that their scripture may have flaws, even when the flaws are obvious?

or

2) The person who can accept the idea that there may be some flaws in their scripture, but who still believes in the overall message.



By "flaw" I mean
1) contradictions (e.g., Saul died in 4 different ways according to the bible, which is a neat trick http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/saul.html)
2) errors (e.g., according to the bible, a bat is a bird)
3) intolerance/bigotry (eg., the bible commands women to stay silent in church)
4) injustice (e.g., the penalty for being a disobedient child is death, according ot the bible)

etc.



Personally, I think that the second person demonstrates more faith because they believe enough in the message that they can handle acknowledging such things and having to slip into rationalization or denial to cover them up.


What do you think?

typo: should read that those with faith do NOT have to slip into rationalization or denial....

sorry

Answer 1

2nd by far.

1st is just ignorance.

Answer 2

I think that the 2nd has more faith . However I am somewhat skeptical as to what you are considering flaws in the biblical text.
At the time the bible was written they probably had not had the scientific knowledge to call a winged creature who looks like a bird in flight could be anything other than a bird.
When paul commanded the women in church to be silent he was speaking in a church that had been long following the gods and goddesses in a pagan religion where the women were largely in charge. He told them to be quite until the service was over and to then ask their husbands what was said as there was more than likely chaos and yelling when paul started preaching the word. To further back that up, there are scriptures in the bible where women were called to preach and were considered religious leaders.
The death of a child for disobedience was a law that was in the OT times and Jesus nullified the need for that with the new covenant. Those old laws were largely for the Jew and it was considered Abrahaimic law.
I'll get back to you on Saul.

Answer 3

Definately the second person. Many of the contradictions that are in the Bible can be explained by a difference in authorship, time of writing, and audience written to. Errors may be explained by our modern conception of a "bat" and their not knowing the difference. Intolerance can be explained in variances of interpretation--will someone interpret women being silent in Church literally, or according to today's contemporary standards? Injustice is the same thing...perhaps they mean the penalty being death in the spiritual realm, not physical.

Yes, a lot of the Bible is archaic and outdated...but the thing about it is to ruffle through the wierd stuff to get to the good stuff, because the good stuff is worth ruffling through. It's important to rationalize your religion so that you can understand it however. We will never understand God's mystery and power as long as we are on earth, but we rationalize it (as God gave us the power to) because that's the best way we can understand it. I hope that sheds some light on things!

Answer 4

Which person has the stronger faith?

Number 1
The person that has the stronger faith is the person who refuses to accept any evidence that their scripture may have flaws, even when the flaws are obvious?

Personally i don't like that, it really takes a strong faith and a bit of obtuseness to believe something wholeheartedly without proof or despite sufficient evidence to the contrary.
An example follows:

1 Samuel 31:12
all their valiant men journeyed through the night to Beth Shan. They took down the bodies of Saul and his sons from the wall of Beth Shan and went to Jabesh, where they burned them.

1 Chronicles 10:12
all their valiant men went and took the bodies of Saul and his sons and brought them to Jabesh. Then they buried their bones under the great tree in Jabesh, and they fasted seven days.

Maybe they did both bury and burn Saul and his sons or maybe it's just a regular miracle.
For a fact it's a contradiction unless it is talking
about different valiant men and a different Saul and sons.

It takes faith to believe this.

Answer 5

I fall into the second category myself.

I appreciate your post; there are many Christians who believe you can only be a believer if you think the Bible is the literal word of God.

Some (evangelicals/others) are comfortable with reading the Bible this way, but many have turned away from the church because they see the contradictions and bigotry you mention. Hopefully people can realize that being a Christian does not mean accepting "truths" from The Bible that are ridiculous/sexist; being a Christian means surrendering to the loving Father, and doing His will, which is to love Him and others with all our hearts.

Great post. Peace.

Answer 6

Once again someone is trying to shake up our faith. When will you all give up?
By the way, you do need to reread the Bible since nowhere does it say that Saul died 4 different ways. Again, someone who hasn't studied the Word is trying to refute it.
When you are trying to prove a point it would be nice to have the specific Scripture verses that you are talking about.

Answer 7

Muffin is physically powerful one hundred% sturdy faith is unshakable. Hows sturdy does it would desire to be??? *whew* thats a tricky one... lemme see this may appear kinda paradoxial, it particularly is proper to the load you're donning or the challenge you're up against. while you're truthful with your self and say "i failed that try" then your faith isn't as sturdy accurately. I easily have those days failed various "exams" using fact my faith isn't as sturdy because it desires to be. it particularly is an extremely humbling adventure to be certain. How lots weight can a bridge carry? That relies upon on the way it became geared up, faith is the comparable. faith comes by using listening to and listening to by using the word of God. So build your tower or bridge there and it would be sturdy sufficient once you pick it - i'm hoping. On maximum issues i'm particular, in this i will might desire to defer to what's written and easily relay it. using fact i'm no longer one to "carry forth" faith. Me have an prolonged thank you to circulate on that one.

Answer 8

You misuse the word "faith". The first person has more faith because he STILL believes in spite of the logical and evidential obstacles in his way. Faith does not require proof or evidence. Faith is, as the poet Tennyson put it, "believing where we cannot prove".

No 1 is, of course, the biggest fool, and faith per se is a form of madness.

Answer 9

Which has the stronger faith? Well the one who believes God is correct and mankind is corruptible.

The Word of God is spoken, and the scriptures are the guide book but not the Word. It takes a translator to read God's Word because we do not speak His language. The translator is the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit the scriptures will not be understood, and can not be correctly discerned.

So believing the Word of God is the stronger Faith, but to be even stronger, knowing that we each fall short of His Glory will help us.

If you seek fault in the scripture then you will find it. But if you believe and then seek God, you will find Him.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 is a terrific resource.

Answer 10

I judge the actions of people, and try to overlook their flawed beliefs.

Because most Jehovah's Witnesses won't be saved. It's in their book of Jehovah, that only a finite number from the 12 tribes of Israel will be saved.

If the Jehovah's Witness at the door doesn't have any lineage back to the 12 tribes of Israel, then I tell them to find another religion.

If I won't be saved under their religion, then why should I be bothered by their pushiness.

Answer 11

Well if you actually read the text you might find something out.

For example Saul and how he died:

1. The Phillistine archers hit Saul, he would surely die
from the wound (1 Sam 31:3).
2. Saul knowing he'd die, decided to fall on his own sword
to speed his death (1 Sam 31:4-5).
3. An Amalekite saw Saul fall on his sword and then went up
to him. Saul told him he was trying to die but his life
wouldn't end, so he asked that the Amalekite also try to
kill him. That was apparently enough to do him in.
(2 Sam 1:6-10)
Hmmm not sure what is so confusing here.