What is your reality?

Question

I was running with a friend of mine this morning and we went off on a philosophical debate about reality. The state of reality. What is real? It started off as a discussion about meeting people in cyberspace, how can you have a relationship (friendship or romantic) with someone - when you communicate with them, talk to them, interact with them and yes they obviously exist but you aren’t physically there with them, so how is that a relationship based on reality?
That was his argument. No body-No reality-No relationship.
Then we continued the back half of 3 miles- panting and we got into the discussion of Christianity- (Sam is catholic and I am not). I applied his logic.
How can something that is not proven (evolution as well, I am afraid) be grounds for basing a relationship? Your personal relationship with God.
Now don’t misconstrue what I am saying I am not debasing your relationship with God, at all.
What I am asking is what proof do you need, what state of reality do you need to base your relationships?

And don’t say the bible, that’s too easy! Think beyond that.

I with you Lucky- I just don't want people to get hung up there and not think about what I am really asking.

Answer 1

A relationship over the internet isn't IDEAL but it is REALITY. There is no box into which all "genuine" relationships must fit. There are many different types of relationships experienced as quite real & satisfying. Who's to say they aren't just as legitimate as any other?

My uncle met his wife over the internet. They had a very very long distance relationship (US to Russia) and he eventually brought her here and married her. Their relationship didn't suddenly become valid, didn't suddenly blink into existence, once they could come in contact with the physical bodies of one another.

Sex, tangible interaction and tactile sensations are important but not absolutely necessary. Some older folks don't get overly physical or even stay in the same room as one another most of the day and I'm sure they still consider their relationship solid.

As for belief in God... that can be a PERSONAL reality, but there is absolutely no concrete proof whatsoever that anyone is talking to the same concept of "God" that anyone else is. Over the internet or over the phone, you KNOW... KNOW... that you're talking to an existing being. When one resonates their vocal chords to the tune of prayer, there's no telling if those sound waves are reaching any divine ear.

So... it's a PERSONAL reality but not an OBJECTIVE one, at least not conclusively.

Answer 2

Wow! How to answer? Penpals developed into relationships, so that is not a difference compared to the Internet.

Now your real question. Do you ever do Sudoko? If you do, you advance not by proving numbers but by eliminating numbers.

Here is a anology. New York City has evolved over time, has it not? What caused the evolution of NYC. Was it due to nature or was it due to a creator, like men and women?

In the same manner, can we prove that life occurred naturally, that we are just random quirks of nature. I'm not by the way, and neither are you. There is not one bit of science that can even remotely show that genetic code can be naturally created. If not, then, the only other option is that it was created.

If science can show that natural creation is possible, then it will be headlines. However, I do not expect that I will be shown to be a random quirk of nature, so, I will believe that we all are created beings, that each of us have a purpose, and that the purpose of govt is to give us the liberty to pursue our created destiny. Furthermore, that force, violence and oppression are the greatest wrongs, no different than the Darwinian survival of the fittest. Darwin was right about the natural continuum of species. He was also right that his hypothesis about how it happened needed to be proved. It has not been proved. The big bang (the creation of the universe), and the understanding of the human genome (the 3 Billion lines of genetic code that create life) all point to a creator.

"I think a man's duty is to find out where the truth is, or if he cannot, at least to take the best possible human doctrine and the hardest to disprove, and to ride on this like a raft over the waters of life.” -- Plato

Hope this helps!

Answer 3

I think this type of environment leads to more of a deep philosophic relationship because the relationship is based more upon words and a person's deepest thoughts, more so than physical qualities...It eliminates the distraction of the senses.... For example:

We are sitting over dinner and I am pouring my heart out to you about something really profound, and you are trying to listen, but you can't help but be distracted by my whiskers (which I don't have, thank God)....And you're thinking, "God, doesn't she know that she can get those waxed? What is with that.? Poor thing...."

You have just missed the deeper part of the story and now I accidentally spill my wine glass which soaks the table, so we are calling for the waiter as we get ready to leave....And the moment is lost; the thoughts may never be heard. With writing you have a person's words and a piece of their spirit that remains.

I have met a really decent person from this site, and we email each other multiple times a day.....I feel like I have a very good sense of who he truly is....

Answer 4

Easy.

1. The same way you you talk to yourself and make decisions. You can't touch your mind, you can't see it, it's not a tangible thing and yet it is a central part of how we communicate and interact.

2. "That was his argument. No body-No reality-No relationship."
That rhetoric is flawed. As human begins, we have many levels of realtionships with objects, thoughts, memories, etc. Even though these objects or memories can't talk to you, they DO give you something. There is reciprocation at a certain level.

3. God is irrelevant in this argument. If you deemed that you have a realtionship with your pet rock, so be it. If you have a fondness and a relationship with your blanket, ok and if you meet someone online and it feels good then go with it.

My real question is, HOW THE HELL do you have a long-winded debate on philo while "running". ...lordy.

Answer 5

The questions you ask forms the core of Metaphysics - the study of reality. It is one of the standard and most important areas of study of any philosophy degree. Descartes, the father of modern philosophy, considered this question, and came to the conclusion that the only think that he could be certain of was that he thought therefore he was (cogito ergo sum). Others have taken this further and said that Descartes should have stopped at the fact that he might just be a thought. Skepticism has been used to explore how far ideas can be taken to test whether any are more worthy of belief. Hilary Putnam asked how we could not know that we were not a brain in a VAT with all our sensations being manipulated by electrodes since the only way we experience anything is through our brains. Some links you might like to follow are below. I think that Shakespeare summed it up well when he wrote:

There are more things in heaven
and earth, Horatio, Than are
dreamt of in your philosophy.
William Shakespeare, Hamlet Prince of Denmark

I am sorry to say that there is no sure guide to what is ‘reality’. I prefer the philosophy of Dewey who suggests that we be pragmatic and that if our concept of reality is useful, if it works for us and is to our and others benefit then we should accept it.

http://www.friesian.com/metaphys.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat

Answer 6

Katy, I agree with you and disagree with your friend. If you can't have a relationship with someone on cyperspace because there is no body, then you absolutely cannot have a relationship with God, since there is no body and it is not proven the existence in any other way. But I disagree with your friend, because I believe reality is not just phisical and 3 dimentional. Much less relationship is. I may not see you, but I'm interacting with you. I read your question, I'm giving my answer. You expose your ideas, I expose mine. I would call ultra-short, but in a strech, it is a relationship. Relationship is not made of physical bodies in close proximity. You may be sitting next to a person in a train for days, if you don't talk, or don't aknowledge the other's presence, you have no relationship. If we keep exchange messages for days, we'll connect and have a relationship, regardless if the bodies are distant. Reality is what we perceive. If someone is blind and can't read my message on the screen, he has no prove of me. That doesn't mean I don't exist, I'm just not real to him. I may still have a personal relationship with you regarless of the blind being able to see it or not. Now if you friend believes there is no relationship with other through internet, than it would be futile of me to try and have a relationship with him in IM. But as long as I comunicate with you and we interact, we can still have a relationship regardless of them (your friend and the blind). I believe a relationship with God is the same way. The connection nad interaction takes form in the most unnusual ways. Some people just can't see it. Sone will disregard it, because believe it irrelevant for developing relationship. But some will connect. And this connection is regardless of prove of existence to others (assuming the connected one believed it somehow, or would be able to connect). No there is no body, but the perception exists and therefore He is real to the one that perceives it.

Answer 7

My reality is that believing in religion or God is a mental illness.

Religion is a serious mental illness. It’s the inability to face the reality of life and the finality of death. It affects 85% of the USA and 75% of US victims are Christians. The more pathetic and desperate a persons life, the more likely they are to believe in a god. People with otherwise empty lives, are the strongest believers. It gives them false hope that there’s a higher meaning to their sad and pathetic lives.

Religious people are dangerous. They cannot think for themselves, but instead cling to every word the bible says. Religious fanatics can somehow throw out all scientific evidence and replace it with the word of one book that has no credibility.

Recognising religion as a type of mental illness would be a good start to help cure this disease. We should develop support groups along the lines of Alcoholics Anonymous - “My name is Sam and I’m a recovering Christian ...”

Answer 8

Would you deny any connection with people that you speak with on the telephone? It is just because we have all this technology that we can have a lot more relationships that are not face to face. Whatever proves our existence, whatever footprint we leave behind, is magnified to include everyone else existing on the planet. Therefore, if they exist, and if there is any way whatsoever to interact with them, then the possibilitiy of a relationship exists. Whatever your definition of "relationship" might be.

As for having a relationship with God...that really is in each other's mind. Relationships by my standard have two sides. We may pray and feel that we have a relationship with God in our hearts and souls, but if it truly is a relationship, that is up to your definition of one. I guess that I have to say that for me, it's not a relationship. It is an acceptance of his existence and a respect, love and gratitude for the creation.

Answer 9

Excellent question, but there is no "me" in reality.
There is no my reality, or your reality.
There is only one reality, that applies to everyone, whether or not they know or accept it.
You have several valid queries here, but I will answer them all at once by saying that reality doesn't have to be sensed to still be real.
We are humans, and as such, we are mortal, finite, relatively simple creatures (despite what many people think, including some of the answerers to this question).
We will never know or feel the full extent of reality on this Earth, but only in the afterlife, when our finite bodies join our infinite souls; only then will we know the reality that God knows.

Wow, how about that?
You got almost the whole cast of regulars here in the R&S section; again, great question!

Answer 10

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian