Defend your Wiccan belief?

Question

Earlier it was posted that there should be more Wiccan beliefs on this board. Now I know there's a lot of you out there that think you can come up with some snappy responses to my question, but please refrain.

When I think of the Wiccans I don't really think about what they believe, but more of how they believe in it. More so than Christians whether they be Protestant, or the Catholics. Do they have rituals with beads, bongs, and dances around big fires. It's the perfect religion/belief for anyone who wants to feel like they have some special powers. I take it that most Wiccans had a real low self esteem when they grew up. Mix this with rebellion against a religion (whatever it may be) and make them feel like they have something no one else has.....MAGIC. I'm Atheist, but no so much that I believe in nothing at all, but I find Wicca to be too much Faries and Unicornes. Honestly, don't you find that the REAL reason that you believe Wicca is because it involves you doing magic?

MORE QUESTIONS

Would you find it Ethical to cast spells on people?

ie Love potions
If you could really change a person that way, what makes you think that you have the right to do that? Wouldn't that be selfish since you're obviously doing something against a persons will?

Has any spell truely worked for you? Or do you think there's a chance that you've been too easy to believe that you're spell was working? Do you know what self-fullfilling prophecy is?

Originally when I was reading some of your posts I thought some of you were going crazy, but maybe it's just me. You can't attack my point of view of "Prayer is asking for magic also", because I don't believe in prayer.

I do judge your religion from what I know. If I were to judge it in a positive light isn't that still judging? What I love about our twisted society is that is we prejudge something in a negative way then we are prejudice, but if we prejudge something in a positive way. We're open minded. I don't care either way. I go with what I know. I don't set all my beliefs in stone and I just go with what I've learned. If you people really want me to understand your point of view. Then bashing be about how much of an as*hole I am isn't really going to get across to me......why? Because I don't care.

Some of you Wiccan's are actually good at explaining and really don't take it too personal. I commend you for being that.

Megami of Nekro

I'd rather piss people off with what I think rather than baby and try SOOO hard not to offend anyone. Bunch of pansies our society has become when you can't just say what you think and learn from what they say.

So you're 16 and think you have the answers. Well....everyone's been there and you'll find out that a lot that you think matters. Is just a load of crap. I was part of the New Age thinking till I finally came to the conclusion that these people aren't looking for truth, but are looking for easy answers to the universe. Reality check tells you that life is never easy. You'll have to do better than praying to the Grass Gods to find happiness. What you believe really doesn't matter. Being happy in the short time you live is. So don't take your Wiccan religion too seriously, because in the end you'll just be disappointed with it.

Wiccan's round up all your hate for me and kill me with a spell. At least something exciting could come out of this. And it should give you all the satisfaction of getting rid of a heathen such as myself. Good luck and Good Killing.

Jadea

What I did here was give Wiccan's something to talk about. I think I hit the not of all things that Wiccan's hate. They know people judge and they just needed someone to attack. What I'm doing, regardless of whether people like it or not, is exposing what the general populace feels about the belief. Someone posted, before I posted this, that Wicca doesn't get talked about enough. So what I did was talk about it. From my perspective. Right wrong or indifferent I find every Wiccan I've ever run into to be overly dramatic with their beliefs. They want people to think of them as mysterious. Which is a good reason why so many women are attracted to the religion. They feel that it gives them a sense of mystery to others. Maybe I don't know all about it, but I can sure see the result of it.

Answer 1

The obvious initial response to this would be to inform you that before judging a religious group such as Wicca it may be an idea to learn about Wicca – Wicca is an oath-bound initiate-only priesthood based upon Pagan mystery tradition.

For someone to become Wicca it takes a lot more than simply stating this is your title, you have to earn that title, this requires many years of study and commitment, then seeking a coven willing to train you, traditionally a year and a day training, before then being initiated and taught the oath-bound material.

It has of course a lot to do with magic because witchcraft is one of the main practices of Wicca, as is higher magic, however there are no 'special powers' involved, a lot of the magic is based on belief, however for the most part magics work upon psychology and science – knowledge of the world around you and the use of that knowledge to create change through will.
Fairies and Unicorns do not come into it, you talk to most Wicca – that would be BTW Wicca, not make-it-up-as-you-go-along-fluffy-wannabe-wicca – most are rather similar to Asatru, Wicca are hard-polytheist and are based on knowledge as an ever continuing goal to their path.

Wicca do not initiate any younger than the age of 18 years old, most covens will opt for even older, some even only initiate people with several decades within Paganism, by the age of at least 18 most people have grown out of the idea of unicorns and fairies, or at very least left the misconceptions about Wicca being 'Love & Light' far behind.

No Wicca believes what they believe because of Wicca's magical practices, the practice is part of the priesthood but not the basis of Wicca – no one who is only interested in magic could ever become Wicca, they would be laughed at by covens before even going into training to become Wicca.

Magic also requires many years of practice, if someone was to call themselves a witch after just a few months of study or practice is deluding themselves, there are practitioners who have been within magic for decades without reaching the sorts of abilities you are talking about, it comes with study and practice, not overnight, it's not something you do without a lot of hard work and dedication.

Spells are no different to using your will to change anything else within life, this is what lower magics such as witchcraft are about, it is simply a matter of using different means to bring about your will – we all 'make' people fall in love with us, every act we perform has an effect on the world around us, it has cause and effect, it has an outcome that we have had a part in bringing about.

Wicca doctrines don't have morals, it comes down to personal morals and ethics – although Wicca may teach new trainees the rede and law of return as a way to make them think about their actions (rede is not part of Wicca, it came about as it is today at a later date, it is also not 'harm none' as many quote but a statement on cause and effect – physics, something Wicca believe strongly in).

Self-fulfilling prophesy is part of the psychology of the spell work, don't forget these are people you are talking about of course psychology is going to have an effect on what they do; it is exactly this they utilize.

There is no such thing as being open-minded, if everyone who said they were open-minded were then their would be no use for such a term. You do judge their religion from what you know; the problem there is that you apparently know very little about Wicca.

~ Side note here, just because people say they are Wicca does not make it so, one can only be Wicca via initiation into a British Traditional Witchcraft coven, meaning a coven that has direct lineage back to Gardner or the New Forest Coven (as beliefs, practices, doctrines, gods and myths of Wicca are oath-bound and passed down via it's initiates as a way to protect integrity, most we know about Wicca comes from outer-court material) – most people answering your questions are probably not Wicca themselves, so cannot really be used as a basis for Wicca, neither can a lot of web sites on the religion. ~

Question here is, if you don't know about Wicca, have no interest in learning about Wicca, and are unwilling to take in answers, why bother posting the questions at all?

Or is the answer simply that you wish to show your 'individual thought' on how society is too PC and people are too quick to judge those who judge?

Answer 2

I originally studied wicca because I was curious of other religions and because I did not fully believe in christianity. I started around the age of ten questioning the religion and at the age of 12 I learned there was more than christianity. My self esteem had nothing to do with my desicion to practice wicca. And so help me I have never seen a ritual with beads and bongs.

I no longer consider myself wiccan because I beleive many wiccans are what I would consider new age hippies. Please no offense to those that practice. I did not "mesh" well with the wiccan community. However.....

Being wiccan has helped me to understand the concepts of witchcraft. Now I am a solitary witch. You asked have spells worked for you. I would say yes!!

Example: I cast a money spell so I could pay my bills. My utilites were going to be shut off. The next day I recieved a check in the mail. Somehow there was an accounting error at my job and I recieved back pay. I was unaware there was a problem. There was a little bit more than I needed in the check to pay my bills.

Example: There was a girl that was making mine and my boyfirends life a living hell. She would call my house constantly to argue and yell, try to start fights, and was down right nasty to me and eventually my children. She wrote me a letter saying all kinds of nasty things. I took the letter light it on fire and said may her karma go back to her. may all the negativetly she sent my way be sent back three fold. Two days later I found out her apartment (only hers) caught fire and was destroyed. She moved to a one bedroom and that one (again only hers) caught fire, then her children were taken away (she was a bad, bad mom), and her boyfirend left her. Her karma bite her in the ***!

You say it is coincedence but when I needed something and I did a spell I always got what I needed. It has happened to often to be coincecdence to me.

Back to the first statement - I dont believe I have any speical power. I believe everyone has the ability to alter there life in the way they need it wether through magic or other means. I have never had low self esteem and I just recently came out about being a witch. Practicing about 8 years now. So I don't use it as a shock factor. In my normal life I am happy and content with a wonderful family and lots of friends.

I may not like the wiccan religion anymore but it was a great start for me and I am very happy I choose that path. For the record I dont believe in faries and unicorns.

Answer 3

Hells yah, for me. I'm an atheist too, but have a soft spot for Wicca, and have dabbled in it a little. But, sure who doesn't want to try to tap into the mind's potential? I don't really feel the need to defend it because wiccans aren't bothering anyone and don't care what your opinion is. They won't fight with you over it like the fundie xians or muslims will. Just let them do their thing, and find happiness in their own way. So, it's a little silly, so what. It is more fun than any other religion I've ever heard of. The stereo types you assume to be true probably are for some, but others have been born with strange perseptive abilities and other odd gifts that they are just trying to learn more about. All other religions will tell them that those are "satanic powers" and won't help them except to offer an exorcism or something. Wicca is just cool like that. Besides, where do you think the terms "Mother Earth" and "Father Time" came from? Not the bible.

Answer 4

Have you ever read up on Wiccan beliefs? For true Wiccans it's not so much the magic as the spirits/energy of the self and/or objects that help you focus that energy. It really is quite interesting. The onslaught of pop culture idealizing the Wiccan culture has hurt the true basis of it. I feel that I am an atheist, but after reading REAL literature on Wiccan beliefs, I think there are some aspects that I could relate to. Wiccans are taught to rely on themselves and their experiences. That a better life can only be brought on by themselves, sort of like Karma, but not exactly. I find it all more reasonable then some person will come back from the dead to give me a better life or afterlife. In this skeptical world, if God really did come back - who would believe him/her?

Answer 5

Wicca is an Earth-based religion that worships the forgotten Gods and Goddesses and the Elements Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Spirit. Wicca is not evil in any way! We believe in the three-fold law which is to harm none and what you give comes back on you three times good or bad. Our spells are like Christian prayers only using nature as our guide.

For your questions: I do not want to convince you of our religion. This religion is right for me, and may or may not be right for others. I understand your religion and respect it, so I do not want to attack you or your beliefs. I only ask that you do the same. I am not rebelling against a religion and have a high self-esteem, probably too high sometimes! I don't think that you have done much research on Wicca, so therefore are a little, for want of a better word, ignorant on the subject.

We believe in the three-fold law which means basically that if you do harm, you get it back three-fold, do good, you get that back three-fold. Most Wiccans do not cast spells that will keep someone from their own free will. This would be called black magick and would go against the three-fold law.

No, I do not believe in Wicca because it involves "magic". Magick is not as you see it, it is more like prayers to ask for something. Yes, I have had spells work for me, and also had some that I regretted doing because they have fallen back on me three-fold! I believe in Wicca because it is peaceful religion dealing with Earth, loving and being in harmony with everyone and everything and because I have just plain found that it is what is best for me!

Hope this helps you understand Wicca a little more and answers some of your questions!!!!

Answer 6

I first came to Paganism because it kept coming to me. Books about it suddenly kept popping up everywhere and I kept finding out people I knew professed to being Pagans/Wiccans. I thought it was odd how suddenly I kept hearing about it, so I began to research.

For many people I'm sure the interest at least STARTS with magick. Those who only follow it for the magickal aspects of it aren't following the true path. They are on a search for power they will never find. Mostly because power doesn't not come from the individual, but rather a Higher Source, and the practitioner is simply a channel.

Most practitioners do NOT use recreational drugs to induce 'spiritual' experiences. In fact, most believe that it clouds the mind, and prevents you from percieving things properly. Most real practitioners can and do have spiritual experiences that do not involve 'bongs'.

Wicca and witchcraft/Paganism, do not REQUIRE 'drums, beads, and dancing' although some groups do incorporate those practices in an effort to recapture the simplicity and authenticity of those spiritual practices of ancient times.

People are mistaken to think that it's all about spells, and magick, and rituals --- it's not. It is a spiritual/religious path that, when followed properly, is a valid and wonderful path to experiencing the Divine and the world/Universe as we know it.

Most people who begin their interest in Wicca/witchcraft because of the magick/spells, usually don't stay long and the interest fades once they reach past the 'rebellious' phase. It is those people that give the real deal who are interested in a relationship with the Divine and learn about the nature of the Universe and mankind a bad name! Try talking to a real Wiccan/Pagan before you go making assumptions. :-)

Also, I do not have low self-esteem, although I am sure that is part of the allure to some. Do not lump us all into one big stereotype. That's not very fair, and hypocritical as you wouldn't want someone to do that with atheists, would you?

And about love spells -- you're absolutely right! We have no right to influence someone's will into making them love us, or anyone! Love spells are only meant to attract love ... not from a specific person, but from anywhere the Universe might send it from.

In regard to the person below who is a witch and used a spell to return the karma to a woman who had been harassing her and her boyfriend -- there are some witches/wiccans who wouldn't even do that! Some (myself included) feel that the only person who has the right to judge that person, or punish them (and choose the timing for that punishment!) is the God and Goddess (the Source of All Things). When I do protective spells like this I use a mirror and instead of sending the energy/karma back to who it came from I ask that the harmful energy be reflected and neutralized. I don't want to harm the person who is harassing me -- I just want them to leave me alone. It is all a matter of personal belief!

Blessings and Light!

~RW

Answer 7

I'm not Wiccan, though I used to be... when I was a teenager. And you are absolutely right... that is Exactly why I did it... cause I thought it would be sooo "cool" to be able to manipulate people with MAGIC. It was the in-thing to do. Of course, that was when I was 14... I'm 35 now. But by the time I was 18 I was considered a High Priestess. Talk about a huge ego! Though, I can't speak for anyone else but myself on this, I suspect it's the same for most others who join Wicca, as well as other sects of Paganism. Hopefully they'll find out later, like I did, that 98% of it is Power of Suggestion... mainly on yourself... and not fall into the hole these new age writers of dug for people. Making them think they can change themselves and others, completely just because they concentrate on a lit candle. Granted, there's nothing wrong with wanting change and even focusing on that change, but magic (or magick... as Crowley spelt it) is not going to do that for them. I've seen too many work a spell and then think the change will come... and when it doesn't, they say "oh well, the Goddess must not deem it time for that to happen" (Sounds vaguely familiar to people talking about Prayer, doesn't it?)... as for the religion itself, I have no problem with Wicca. Wicca isn't about witchcraft, as witchcraft is only a tool used by Some of it's practitioners. But, for me, it was more a crutch... an excuse... and an ego boost.

Answer 8

Wicca, I think it can reasonably be said, tends to be a bit more formal than paganism and/or shamanism. Also, I think it can be said that some people who practice Wicca go for the "shallow end of the pool," meaning they do go for the faeries, spells, and unicorns. It could also be said that there are people in all religions whose faith may be great, but their understanding of their faith may be quite limited.

Nonetheless, there are also those who approach the "deep" in Wicca, just as their counterparts in other religions do. They see Wicca both as a way of achieving greater understanding of themselves and their place in the universe, and as a way of celebrating the mystery that sustains life. I cannot, in truth, call myself a Wiccan as I do not practice the cermonies and ritual of Wiccans, nor do I identify with the concept of deity, whether in a monotheistic or polytheistic format.

What wiccans and pagans do have in common typically is a deep and abiding reverence for the natural world. We are much more aware of the seasons within and without us. We tend to honour the earth as the mother of all life; this world is sacred to us as it is all that sustains us. As for magick, yes, I have done it over the years. However, the greatest magick that can be found in Wicca or any other form of neopaganism is that which brings us into greater harmony both with our inner nature and with nature as it is all around us. Magick that manipulates should only be done as a last resort to restore harmony when it has been disrupted. Even if the only result is reorganizing our consciousness in a positive way so that we feel better and hopefully act more positively in our lives and in our world, magick then is a meaningful and sacred act. All one needs is proper intent. And, of course, the will to carry out any actions in the ordinary world that will aid us in attaining our goals.

Answer 9

Wow, this was a pretty darn rude answer.

Let me tell YOU, sir, that even though I have low self-esteem and of the such, I didn't just choose this religion for me randomly.

In fact, I chose to be Pagan (Wiccans are Pagans, so, yeah) because of multiple NDE's (Near Death Experiences) I've had.

I'm sorry that you feel that people only become Wiccan for a power over things. But, look at it, versus Christianity. Instead of praying for things to happen, you actively try to make things happen. Is that so horrible?

I used to be a full-blown Catholic, but, I changed after the NDE's.

And what's wrong with a different belief in Gods and Goddesses? You need to calm down a bit, and really examine this religion for what it is.

Spells I've done have work, and I have NEVER done a spell on another without explecit permission first. Love Spells are not meant to be done directly to other people, because that is unethical. Love Spells are meant to be done for finding SOMEBODY that is a certain way, not for getting one specific person to love you.

Many Atheists will pick up a bible before criticizing Christians.

You should try reading a few webpages and books before trying it again. Seriously. I suggest "The Science of the Craft" by William H. Keith.

Though, your attempt to spark excitement and anger is somewhat appreciated. I enjoy having my feathers ruffled every now and then.

- 16 yo Pagan

Answer 10

First off, I don't believe I should have to defend my Wiccan beliefs. But just to satisfy your little tastebuds, I will give you some info...

I was raised in a very loving family (good self esteem) and raised Christian (Lutheran & Non-denominational). I never truly found the truth in the bible that I needed so I went searching for a belief/religion/way of life that fit my lifestyle. I ran into Wicca because my wife has been a practioner since birth but was in the "broom closet" because of family. I then when searching for someone to help me learn. I found that person in a local alchemy shop.

I believe every spell I have done has gone the way I wanted it. My problem is that the second my spell goes right, I "shoot myself in the foot". I don't believe in using LOVE spells or potions because that affects free will and true Wiccans know better than to do something like that.

I use my inherited powers to better those around me. I will know go into my inherited powers because that is just not what I want to do but believe me. I feel sorry for you because for you to believe in nothing is to not even believe in yourself... So let's talk about who has low self esteem.

-24 yr old Wiccan and practioner of 2 years

Answer 11

I am somewhat of a fundie Pagan and don't really like Wicca much myself. However, it is clear to me that you don't have enough information about the subject to make a judgement. Wicca isn't about magic, but magic is a form of religious expression common to Wicca. Most religions practice magic, even many Christian religions, though they'd probably slap me if I pointed it out to them. Take a walk with me one day and I will show you examples of magic every day outside of the Pagan community. Non-Pagans think of magic as something special, something no one else has. Pagans know it's extremely common and (gasp) mundane.

Wicca is hardly a rebellion against religion, because it is religion. It has a strict code, and a clear cosmology, ritual and many mystery elements.

There are, however, no Unicorns in Wicca, and Faeries have absolutely not a thing to do with most Wiccan sects. Those who do honor the Fae don't see them in the storybook sense either.They are a whole family of spirit creatures of various forms. They have a rich history in many cultures and most of us who acknowledge their existance (which I do though I don't worship them) have physically seen and interacted with them. They weren't little naked girls with butterfly wings, in case you were wondering.

Beads, have nothing to do with Wicca. Bongs have nothing to do with Wicca, drugs in general don't. Some folks utilize various herbs to help acheive an ecstatic state, but most Wiccans, like most Christians, do not engage in ecstatic activities. Examples of this in Wicca are journey and channeling. Examples of this in Christianity are speaking in tongues and snake handling. And most folks don't need drugs to journey or channel, though many may in the beginning, they are generally working toward the ability to do so without. Drums (180 bpm) are far more efficient than drugs at helping to acheive an ecstatic state anyway. Again, until you get really deep into the religion, most people don't engage in these activities anyway. Dancing around the fire is an ecstatic, religious activity, not patently Wiccan(or even commonly Wiccan) and common in many Pagan practices. Many people, drummers and dancers alike, journey during these activities and occasionally channel spirits. This is one way that we receive learning from the spirit realm. We do not have a "Bible" (nor do we want one) and believe that true knowledge comes from within. One of the ways to access this knowledge is through ecstatic state. That is why we dance.

That being said, there are a bunch of folks out there who read a book and call themselves Wiccan who are in fact not. Wicca is a specific religion and it requires a training period before initiation. Teenagers who "dabbled" in Wicca were never really Wiccan. They were Seekers. Seekers are people who are experimenting with and participating in a particular path but who are not yet initiated. There is nothing derogatory in this. Pagans encourage people to be Seekers, to explore a great deal before making a final decision. Most groups, Wiccan and otherwise, will not admit members under 18, though they may be Seekers within the group, and a High Priestess at 18 is laughable.

And of course, All religion is a crutch. But you know that.