What was Jesus thinking? Is he such a terrible planner?

Question

Why did he surround himself with idiots (the NT portrays the appostles as stumbling, unbelieving idiots), then appoint James as his successor. THEN, the appoints Paul as his OTHER successor, gives him a very different Gospel to teach. I mean, Paul and James are diametrically opposed (if you read the Clementine, they are trying to have each other killed.)

What James was teaching (as near as we can tell) was a lot closer to what Jesus was originally reaching. Why does Paul need to extrapolate so much? Why didn't Jesus simply teach what he wanted? Why did he withold from his apostles and give secret knowledge to Paul. Why did he give an incomplete message to his people (the Jews) and give a complete message to people that he refered to as dogs (gentiles.)

If he wanted a separate message for the Jews, didn't he realize that James and his followers would soon be wiped out by the Romans? Isn't he omniscient?

I'm confused.

Picard,

Since you asked, I can reccomend a few books.

James: The Brother of Jesus, by Robert Eisenman. It is a very good argument (citing Eisenman's work on the dead sea scrolls) that James was the intended successor of Jesus and that Paul kind of took over, especially after the original "Christians" (It is not clear that they actually though that Jesus was Christ.) were wiped out. Some of it is a bit of a stretch, but much of it is very cleary supported.

The Secret Origins of the Bible, by Tim Callahan. It deals mostly with the OT from a skeptical standpoint, but it does (unlike most books of this type) delve into the NT a little. Very interesting stuff.

If that stuff is a little too anti-traditional-view for you, A History of God by Karen Armstrong is excellent. It doesn't deal directly with the questions I asked, but it does make it clear that what we think about religion has been changing over the centuries.

Peace

" don't see how Paul and James are teaching a different Gospel. I looked up the Clementine claim in Wikipedia and I don't agree."

But you are just reading what James says in the bible. The bible that was edited and redacted by Paul and his followers. That is VERY, VERY, VERY different than that James from nearly every other source. The other sources paint James as being very fundamentally jewish and constantly preaching against Paul. According to James (from the non-biblical sources) the followers of Jesus need to be practicing Jews. Don't be confused about what Paul tells us about James. Even so, even in the accepted bible, there is a clear conflict:

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/graceuniversal/Paul%20vs%20James,%20by%20F_%20L_%20Fallis.htm

"i think ur ignorant. and u need to read ur bible. if he planned so bad, how r u here? grow up n go to church u @$$"

Hmmm. It's so ironic that someone who speaks like a 13-year gang banger to tell me that I'm ignorant.

If reading every book I can get on the subject (pro and con) makes me "ignorant", then go ahead and paint me with that brush.

"The bible is the most historically accurate book ever written. ... There are ten thousand original hand written manuscripts of the new testement that all say the same thing... There is archeological evidence, and corraborating written histories . ... You need to go to collage and study history.

The copies of biblical books are not "original" but "copies" of each other. Even most biblical scholars acknowledge this. You can even track the "typos" from copyist to copyist.

Second of all, I am amazed that people don't realize the huge historical inaccuracies contained in the bible. Uhhh, Rames didn't die in the Red Sea, Joshua didn't conquer Canaan (unless he lived for 200 years, a contradiction of God's own law.) and Nazareth wasn't funded until after 200AD. I'm running out of characters or I'd go on. The list is HUGE and GROWING.

And I do know history. I have PhD in it and teach it at a major university.

Answer 1

Don't be confused because the Bible is really just a fake story, perhaps a bit like the Loch Ness monster tales.

When we pass on information to another (example: story, joke, description of something etc) by the time these details are passed on by word of mouth, interpreted by others, and then written down, the final details are typically quite different than the original information.

Since the Bible is just a man-made story passed down over many years in various forms, the chance of it being accurate in any shape or form is remote.

There are people who swear blind that the Loch Ness monster exists regardless of all the evidence to the contrary, but a fence post bobbing up and down in the Loch does the trick. Similarly there are people who swear blind that God exists and the Bible is fact, yet there isn’t one blind bit of evidence to support such theories.

Biblical tales are really no different than Loch Ness monster tales, just the era is different. Thus ends the confusion.

Answer 2

First of all, Jesus came and died for all men. The Jews of that day rejected HIm, most of them knowing the prophecies and the fact that He was who He claimed to be. They were brought the gospel and warned by the Lord that if they rejected the truth that God would draft in a new branch and they would be temporarily blinded to the truth. This has occured. The Jews are told not to read certain parts of Isaiah by Jewish leaders because if they did they would realize that Jesus was the promised Messiah. From the point where the Jews rejected the Gentile was given the gospel and Paul was the one of the main ones who helped preach the gospel to the Gentiles.
Secondly, I don't think that Jesus was a terrible planner. He picked human beings, one of whom he knew would turn trader. Humans are not capable of not sinning because of the sin nature they have. In 6 month old you can see the sin nature already. You tell them no and they still go for what you tell them no. In their own power they could not have stayed faithful but Jesus wants us to understand that we can't do it but when we admit it to Him and trade our sinful lives for His then He can through us.
And His disciples and Paul did just that.
God uses broken vessels and the simple thing of this world.
Paul, who originally wrote a great many books of the NT, was a persecutor of Jewish believers until God got ahold of him. And once he did, he was one of the greatest evangelist for Christ.
The reason you are so confused is mainly because you read books that are not apart of the Bible, like Clementine. They have been proven to be inaccurate. The one who confuses you is Satan. He doesn't want you to believe. Ask God to reveal the truth to you.

Answer 3

God often works through weak vessels to show His power, so wokring through fishermen from Gallillee might be more glorifying to God than working through a grup of scholars

Jesus did not give secret knowlege to Paul and Paul and James are in harmony rightly understood. Abraham is saved by faith in God who provides the propmised child iSaac in both, in James he adds that by offering up Issaac decades later Abraham vindicated the reality of the faith Abraham had and the righteousness that was already his. The works were a fruit of salvation, a necessary fruit, not a prerequisite

There is not a seperate gospel for Jews and Gentiles there is one gospel

Answer 4

I don't see how Paul and James are teaching a different Gospel. I looked up the Clementine claim in Wikipedia and I don't agree.

Paul taught that we are saved by grace, not by works. He preached against legalism. James taught that about faith. Faith without works is dead faith. The two don't oppose each other because they are not teaching about the same thing. At least that's my opinion.

So, no...I don't believe Jesus was a poor planner.

Answer 5

LMAO! BRENDA'S WORLD! Who lives in your world. The bible is the most historically accurate book ever written. Your analogy, while interesting, is moronic at best. There are ten thousand original hand written manuscripts of the new testement that all say the same thing... There is archeological evidence, and corraborating written histories .

You need to go to collage and study history.

Answer 6

He did not surround Himself with idiots, He surrounded Himself with humans.
Jesus never appointed a successor.

I am not sure where you have obtained this info, but perhaps you should check your sources.

A complete message was given to both Jew and Gentile. The Jews were already schooled in the law of Moses. Therefore, they often needed less instruction because they had already been taught. The Gentiles were completely ignorant and had to have complete instruction.

Answer 7

The expression 'God the Son' isn't as quickly as got here upon interior the Bible. Jesus is God's Son, the liked, and he's 2d to his Father, Jehovah (or Yahweh). See John 20:17 and Revelation financial ruin 3.

Answer 8

Jesus was and is perfect. I don't understand everything in the Bible,but one day,when I sit by His side in Heaven,I will understand. I don't question what I don't know or understand,because ultimately,it doesn't matter.What does matter is that Jesus loved me,and you,enough to suffer unbearably and die for us,and He deserves better from us than constantly questioning what is not important anyway.

Answer 9

Ok, first, Paul is psychotic.
Second, he gave the message to the gentiles 'cause the jews are already God's people. Incomplete message to the jews 'cause they should believe in him anyway.

Answer 10

Well it's because Jesus, the character in the bible, never existed. Neither did James or any of the others, all fiction, invented to have power over people.