Name any society (before the EU, Canada or MA) which instituted civil gay marriage and continues to survive?

Question

Please read the question before answering:

Because the EU is a modern creation, EU member countries who currently allow gay marriage clearly do not count.

Given that more than half of civil marriages between men and women end in divorce, why do people think that gay marriages will work any better when the temptations are greater for gay adultery than for straight adultery.

Do gay people really want to get mixed up in property division, child custody and support, attorney's fees, etc. Do they want gay adultery to enter the courtroom (I saw my partner with so and so leaving the club).

With all this talk about gay marriage in every American state, convince me that civilizations with gay marriage will survive in the long-term because I think that gay marriage is CLEARLY an instrument from the Devil.

Divorce and adultery are considered sins as well, but many people start and end marriages (and affairs) on a daily basis.

I am Orthodox Christian and I believe that God created man and woman in all races with a specific ban on homosexual behavior. Racial discrimination was a massive sin which rectified itself thanks to the grace of Martin Luther King Jr. and others who worked with him (and betrayed him as well).

I do not think that gay people share the same issues with those in mixed-race marriages. The Federal government bans discrimination due to sexual orientation, so gays are on par with blacks.

Many people have children out of wedlock because the stigma associated with bastardy has evaporated with the advent of modern culture (and the ability to automatically collect child support from anyone).

The Anglican church allows gay marriage and the British government is in lock step with the Anglican church. Thank Henry VIII for creating his own religion.

So much for heated topic, I only received two answers so far.

Adultery is reserved for heterosexual couples as grounds for divorce. If gay people want to marry each other - what will stop them from marrying other people? Already, there are "sham marriages" performed involving 3 or more people of all genders. Just because popular civilization, religion and the state have cheapened marriage doesn't give gay people the green light to demand equality with heterosexual couples.

I haven't passed judgment on anybody; I like to know why gay people in THIS AGE feel like they need to establish precedents which have never existed in the history of the world and defy Christianity, Judaism and Islam where neither religion allows for gay marriage PERIOD. If gay marriage wants to use the civil rights movement as a justification, then I have to realize that the civil rights movement was a smokescreen for implemeting the welfare state, gay marriage and other anti-family initiatives.

http://www.conciliarpress.com/blog/index.php?title=gay_marriage_spurs_social_revolution&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

Answer 1

In this extremely heated debate that I'm sure fires up everyone from both sides of the spectrum, you still have to consider what you're saying.

Although you personally may believe it's morally wrong and diabolical to the core, it's not for you to decide. Whether or not you or I agree with gay marriage, it's not for us to say "those two people who love each other cannot be joined in marriage." It is simply not our right.

I think your whole logic base is entirely wrong. You ask about the likelihood of success in marriage as defined by staying together and you ask if gay couples want to get involved in the "nitty gritty" of married life i.e. divorce, property suits and my answer is a resounding "YES." These are EXACTLY the rights that everyone should be entitled to. Although no one would consider divorce court a pleasurable experience, it does not matter. The fact that we, as a country, are denying that experience and those rights to any couple is preposterous. That we are telling people who love each other that they cannot wed is ourageous. Yet at the same time, when a young man impregnates a young woman out of wedlock, one of the first questions that spring to our collective minds is "Is he going to marry her?" We've all heard "I'm going to do the right thing and marry her."

How is that just and the right thing?

50 years ago, if a chat board like this was instituted, we'd be getting questions like "Name any society which instituted mixed-race marriage and continues to survive." Most people didn't like interracial marriage then. Some still do not. But society did not crumble because we allowed two people to be joined in marriage regardless of their skin color and it won't deteriorate if two men or two women get married.

Just my two cents. I realize I didn't truly address the question because I don't believe there are any countries or societies with- I just wanted to pose some "food for thought" and address some parallel issues.

Just for pointers: Denmark legalized gay marriage in 1989 and was the first country to do so. Last time I checked, they were doing quite well.

Answer 2

Because the EU is a modern creation, EU member countries who currently allow gay marriage clearly do not count.

I love that. Let's just wipe out some of the oldest societies because they've decided to join the EU. Britian ruled almost the entire world and they allow gay marriage.

And just how is it that gay adultery is a greater temptation than straight adultery?

And they're not fighting for the right to divorce, they're fighting for the right to be married and all the benefits that go along with that. Tax breaks, insurance, being considered family so they can visit each other in hospital...

You can think that gay marriage is the work of the devil, but guess what, you aren't allowed to judge. Only God can do that and you're not God.

Answer 3

I believe that God also banned doing any non-religious activity on the Sabbath Day, and yet what is this I see? You were answering questions on Yahoo!? On the Sabbath? This is unholy and you deserve to be damned.

OK, actually you don't deserve it, but the logic runs in a similar way to your argument. God banned lots of things in the Bible in a far more specific way than he did gay marriage, and yet I'd be fairly certain that you consider some of them to be anachronistic and 'relevant only to the time that the Bible was written'.

You can pick and choose, fella, but it seems unfair to stop two people who are in love from getting married just because of your views. I'm sure that one of the central tenets of all Christian (and Muslim and Jewish) faiths is that only God can judge what is right or wrong.

As for the more specific part of your question on 'show you any civilisations that allowed gay marriage' - show me any civilisation that has introduced carbon emissions trading and survived. Oh, you can't, because the whole concept has only been around a short while and so you can't suggest anything on that basis. Same goes for gay marriage - there was no law banning or specifically allowing it.

China lasted for around 1,000 years with no ban on gay marriage; Ancient Egypt has the first recorded gay marriage; Ancient Greece allowed it; Nero himself married two young boys in Ancient Rome; moving on to mediaeval times, there was a gay marriage in Istanbul - the capital of the Holy Roman Empire. As far as I'm aware, most of those societies lasted for quite a long time without needing a ban, and when they did fall from power, I haven't seen 'the introduction of gay marriage' as one of the main reasons.

Finally, if you can even show me the word for homosexual in biblical Arabic, Greek or Latin, then I will have learnt something new. In fact, 'homosexuality' is a concept that only emerged in Victorian Britain. Before that, love for somebody was generally considered pretty much fine - regardless of the object. Corinthians 6:8-10 was translated as banning homosexuals by 19th Century conservatives who were themselves against homosexuality and twisted a passage to mean something else to support their own views.

Whether or not you believe in gay marriage, it will happen, and it deserves to happen. If they want to get mixed up in property division, then let them do so. If they would make better parents than alcoholics or child abusers, then I'm happy for them to do that - and if some end up in battles over child custody, well that's pretty natural as well. Gay marriage is just emancipation, in granting the same status to a large group of people as the rest of us.