MARISSA says that the Taliban was not Islamic, neither are the Shias of Iran, neither are the Saudis...
I request her to tell me in which country is the "True" Islam as she interprets it, practised.
TO MARISSA- As regards your opinion on women in Islam, well if an adult woman decides ON HER OWN FREE WILL to be fully and completely veiled in public, she will have my full respect. If decides not to have any affair with anyone before marriage that is her choice and I will respect it. On the other hand if she wants to wear revealing clother, or drink or have affairs that is also her free choice and I will respect that also (My own personal views on drinking or adultery etc. do not matter in the issue of free choice- it is to each his own). The woman is her own person and not my personal property to dictate what she can or cannot do. Please, please try to understand the other point of view. The issue is that of FREE CHOICE. What I do not like about Islam is that it uses force to bring its members in line. In most Islamic countries women are compelled to wear the hijab, etc. etc.
You might say this is the culture of Islam. But have you ever thought of the implications of the culture of force on societies. Take it further - today I force a woman to wear the hijab on the streets as being unveiled is not according to Islamic culture. Once this culture of NOT TOLERATING DIFFERENCES and of FORCING people to behave or just to be in the manner someone feels is right gets hard set in society what happens? The evidence is for all to see. Just a couple of weeks back two girls had acid thrown on them in Indian Kashmir because they were not wearing the veil. In Algeria women have been killed for having lipstick in public. In Iraq, men have been killed for wearing shorts in public. In Afghanistan men are killed for not having beards. In Europe, muslim girls are killed by their family members for behaving in a manner not liked by their parents. Honor killings are rampant in Pakistan. I know, I know, you will say that this is not allowed in Islam. What you should understand is that once the culture not accepting differences and of forcing people to behave in a certain manner gets set in society, such aberrant behavior becomes common.
The extreme to such behavior is the sectarian shia- sunni killings. Hey, the Shias are different from us Sunnis, lets bump them off. Or - the Ahmadiyas (in Iran) are different from us - lets make their lives miserable. What I have said is simplistic, agreed, but that is just to get the point across.
I do hope you get it now.
And since you are talking about women presidents – do you know - during Mohammad’s time news was bought to him that the new head of Iran (then Persia) was a woman. I’ll quote what he said “ If that is true, truly that nation (Persia) can never progress”
TO MARISSA- First of all like you said, it is not good manners to converse out of context to the question on someone's else’s question. You should have an e mail ID for that, failing which I have to make do here.
Let me tell you I have muslim parents and have had the unique opportunity to see firsthand the pernicious effects of Islam on its followers. I have done my B. Tech from one of the best engineering colleges in the world & MBA and am presently with a major software company. I finished reading the Quran, hadidths et al before I was 16 years old. However now I really do not have the time to do any research or search for specific writings or sayings to answer questions as my job, & wife & 2 children take greater priority. At the most I get a window of 20-30 minutes daily for YA.
You really cannot compare the disputes between catholics & prot as between shias & sunnis. In one day more shias & sunnis are killed in Iraq than cath & prot have been killed in decades.
As for beating of wives, well that is a global phenomena & religion has nothing to do with it. Having lived in a muslim locality I have personally observed it in several houses in my neighborhood (all muslims).
About peer pressure amongst girls- that is the same more or less in all countries. Though I really think you might be overstating the issue in the US. I have been there many times and the dsughters of my colleagues I have met seemed like any other girls. The western press has a habit of sensationalizing things.
I observe that while you have written quite a lot, you have not addressed the core of my question ie. the typical muslim outlook of not being able to tolerate differences. For that you should have empathy or the ability to see an issue from the point of view of the other person. Remember what Socrates wrote – “I disagree with what you write but will defend to my death your right to write it”
If a woman wants to move about in public without a headscarf or marry someone of her own choice, well its her life. I am always there to guide my daughter but in the end it’s her choice which matters. She is not my personal property. I agree Indian society expects women you to cover up but I have never heard of any woman being killed i=f she does not do so. I agree protests were there in Bangalore for the beauty paegent but please note – these were peaceful protests & no one even got scratched. PEACEFUL protests are the birthright of any civilized society. Contrast this with what the muslims did against the cartoons of Mohammad. Throughout the world so many innocent people were killed (many who had not even heard about the cartoons) for something someone did in Holland.
See, if you want to evaluate a school, then just go and see its students. If they are bright, good in sports, placed in good jobs etc. then would you not say that the school is good. Similarly if you want to evaluate a religion should you not see the kind of followers it produces. You can go on and on about what is written in the quran, hadidths etc. These issues are not as important as the quality of its followers which is the ultimate acid test. In my personal opinion, Islam totally fails in this regard.
MARISSA: Touche, you never get it. When I say that acid has been thrown on women in Kashmir for not being veiled what does it mean? It means that OTHER than the normal atrocities committed on women by people of ALL religions, this is an extra atrocity committed on women which has its basis in religion. Hundreds are killed by road accidents daily. This does not make news while a terrorist attack which kills one person does. Why, because what is important is the reason behind the attack & not the fact that a person died or had acid thrown on him. When hindus threw acid on girls the reason was not religious. I hope you get it now.
All religions are faulty. I don’t think I have ever defended any religion. Thousands of Huguenots (that name ring a bell?) were killed in France in 1500-1600 due to religious infighting. The Christian Church has been guilty of much much greater atrocities than the muslims can ever dream of. The bible is more violent than the Quran. However I am not concerned with what the bible gita or quran says. I am mainly concerned with the behavior of the followers of the bible, gita & quran in the here and now and not what they did many many years ago.
Of course muslims are totally totally intolerant. A person converted to christainity in Afghanistan & had to flee for his life out of the country. The LAW in Afghanistan (as in all Islamic countries) provides for death in such cases. Does this not indicate intolerance of the highest order? Does it not indicate the total absence of free choice. Tell me ANY other religion in the world which has such laws. Theo Van Gough was killed by a muslim for making a film on the problems faced by women in Iran. Can you imagine the christians bumping off the producers of the Da vinci code. Of course many christians protested. But the protests were PEACEFUL. A full 23% of muslims in Britain support terrorism (as per a recent poll in Britain). Is this not a huge number. I can go on & on… Let me tell you I have no illusions as to how “peaceful” muslims are. If I say even 10% of what I have said on YA, in person in any Islamic country I would be killed. I am safe only because of the internet and not due to any tolerance on the part of muslims. By the way I don’t think I have ever insulted any religion (incl Islam) or used foul language. I have simply given my opinion which is my birthright in any democracy. But muslims do not understand this concept.
Everything is relative in the universe. If I judge Islam in the here and now, I do it on a basis of a comparision with followers of other religions and not on an absolute basis. All religions have their problems - I fully agree, but in my opinion the followers of Islam have the most number of problems.
By the way dear sister, I am not in agreement with how you have ended your reply - “When i as a woman can stand up for the truth and accept faults for others, then u as a man should be very well able to do it”. By this you imply that a man is superior to a woman to which I just do not agree.
MARISSA- Sorry, I could not respond earlier but was awfully busy. I never did say it was ok for hindu men to throw acid on women. Pl read what I have said very carefully - I wrote- – “It means that OTHER than the normal atrocities committed on women by people of ALL religions …” In other words, both hindu & muslim men throw acid on women for spurning their advances. However muslim men throw acid on women for the ADDITIONAL reason that they were unveiled. Got it now I hope.
I agree, I have not been through the links u sent me but. Someday when I get time …
I agree wearing of the burkha is not mentioned in the Quran. However when I say that Islam does not treat its women well I mean to say that they do not get choices. A woman, who does not want to weaqr the veil in an Islamic country (I don’t mean the burkha but the manteau) cannot exercise her right to free choice under Islam. Further I had said - If a person born of muslim parents renounces Islam, the punishment for him/her is death. If I have a negative opinion of Mohammad & I say it in so many words in an Islamic country what is my punishment? Now these prescribed punishments are not those of some misguided muslims but sanctioned under Islam. Yes or no? Please be specific & respond to these statements.
Coming to specifics – the purpose of clothes started off with people using them to shelter themselves from the inclement weather- the heat, cold, rain etc. Later on they were used to cover their bodies. Still later, clothes became an expression of fashion. So what do you want to say?
Since you have taken the example of Akbar, probably you might be aware that he, of all the mughal emperors, was NOT AT ALL religious and treated all religions equally. There was a phase in his life when he toyed with converting to Christianity. Later on he founded a new religion called Din–e–Elahi. He was the most powerful & successful of all the mughal emperors. No wonder he is called “Akbar the Great” by historians. The lousiest of the mughal emperors was Aurangzeb. The all powerful mughal empire started its decline during his reign. He was totally hated by the hindus as he, among other things, reimposed the Jaziya tax. Is it a coincidence that he was the most religious of all the mughal kings & knew the quran by heart? Do you see any link here.
Now where do you get the idea that I support bride burning, sati, child marriage, cannibalism, untouchability etc. etc. If you want to know how I feel about this crap let me tell you that a lot of the misery as above above & much more in this world is caused by religion (ALL religions – excepting Buddhism). I firmly believe that the world will be a much better place if there is no religion on earth. For example the Kashmir issue between India & Pak and the Israel – Palestinian issues will just become irrevalent if there is no religion. Look into history & you will find that half of all wars have been because of religion.
As for being considered “cool” in ya, well what do I gain from that?. Even I don’t know what yoyodda means & you can keep all my points for what they are worth.
As for USA, well don’t think that I support them. I deliberately choose not to move there. Americans have been responsible for the worst atrocities on mankind. Does that make you feel better? But does that solve the problems of muslims? I have seen what Islam does to the mind of most of its follower & I don’t like what I see. Btw my wife is a wonderful woman & a religious one too for your information.
2006-08-28 19:40:10
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answer #1
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answered by yoyodda 3
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Well yes, but many muslims believe what thay are doing is the right thing, women included. The love and promote their "deen" (way of life). As we can see some are prepared to die and shelter criminals for their cause - women again included. The problem lies where Muslim women do feel opressed, or Islamic fundamentalists aim for power over all. In both cases theres injustice or theat to security and peace, and no way out other than a change to the shar'ia or politics/dimlomacy and maybe warfare. Well many Muslims, especially fundamentalists say that the shar'ia can't be changed, so we are left with the other options. All this for woman? Well that issue is unfortunately one amongst many, but because of this the free thinkers amongst them will tend to benifit by Western intervention, while others will wail and turn....
2006-08-28 00:48:46
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answer #2
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answered by Anonymous
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I don't think it is this way everywhere in the Muslim faith. It is in all of the backward countries that have a majority of Muslim. It is the primitive social and intellectual parts of the world where this happens. Afghanistan was one, but most of them are in Africa.
The things going on in Africa are way worse than anything you have described here. There are still to many parts of the world where there is a huge gulf between the halves and have nots, I believe any religion can go fundamentalist and torture it's own women and children if it is in an underdeveloped and un-educated part of the world.
2006-09-04 06:24:13
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answer #3
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answered by spider 4
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The present hatred towards Islam is terrorism.
One one hand they encourage terrorism and on the other hand they preach love and peace. Did you watch in TV last week that Al Qaeda asks the Americans to accept Islam?
What they want to say is otherwise we will attack you. If the Americans want to live - convert to Islam. This is the attitude of most Muslims. I am living in a society where almost 80 - 90 percent are Muslims. I could not find any one who treats others as equal humans. Only reason is their religion.
This is the major cause of hatred towards Islam around the world today. Muslims themselves are responsible for it and no one else.
2006-09-04 20:44:04
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answer #4
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answered by latterviews 5
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look buddy it was the same for women all over the western world not long ago. And to this day women in Britain are still paid less than men. The united states haven't been exactly equal to blacks for very long, (when was slavery abolished there again? not long ago).
So you get the point, the west hasn't been always fair to women and its only when the stood up and fighted that they got anywhere. An example being the suffragette movement in England last century when a women threw herself in front of the kings horse at the grand national or something and she died all for the suffragette movement and womens rights.
2006-08-28 00:46:05
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answer #5
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answered by wave 5
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In Victorian times British women did not have the vote, they were unable to join most professions and in the USA Slavery was legal until the Civil War. All this was in Christian Countries. As civil liberties gradually improved in Christian countries it is hoped that the same will apply in the next decades in countries which have a Muslim majority.
2006-09-04 07:05:36
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answer #6
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answered by welwynstreet 1
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what is your source of information where did you see this
i have seen two ways either women are on first floor of a mosque from where they normally can see downwards but no man sees upwards. or thier enclosure is on the side either left or right on many tv prgrammes you can see them siiting one side of room while men are on the other.
in every case there was a seperate speaker for women section.
muslims gave women right of inhertance 1500 years ago when in uk first women allowed to keep her own property after marriage was in 1857. you sick **** get your facts first then question.
i don't think muslims will be bothered if ignorant idiots like you dislike them.
2006-09-04 14:16:44
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answer #7
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answered by ok 2
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It depends on what type of Muslim it is. The Nation of Islam teaches that all women are the ties that bind all things together. They have the utmost respect for women. Women are Goddess& Queens to them. It is true that in some Muslim Countries, women have seperate prayer quarters than the men. This is nothing that I heard, this is somethung that i say for myself.
2006-08-28 00:49:06
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answer #8
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answered by ? 2
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not all people dislike Muslims, i myself is not a Muslim and yet my best friend is a Muslim. anyway, Muslim don't treat women as second class citizen, women are highly regarded, thus they tend to over protect the women which other people misinterpret as treating the woman as second class citizen. other Muslim society doesn't allow their woman to work that's why, how can you say that they are maltreating their women when the ladies in their society does nothing but go shopping???????? huh. I believe a lot of girls in the western society would like that...
2006-08-28 00:52:41
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answer #9
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answered by Rynald 3
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Muslim women pray in the back simply because it will be a distraction for men to pray behind women and to see them bending over while they should be focusing only on the prayer and on the almighty God.
I am a muslim girl, i pray sometimes in the mosque, I am very comfortable, and i hear the prayer very well.
Have a nice day
2006-08-28 00:52:10
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answer #10
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answered by Aby 3
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People dislike Muslims for many reasons, people also dislike Christians and all religions for many reasons!
Women do have a roll to play in Islam, for example:-
I used to work in Egypt a long time ago , I was always puzzled about why the woman had to walk behind her husband who was riding on a camel, I assumed it was some form of subjugation, but I never questioned it!
I was back in the same place recently and was pleased to see the women were now walking ahead of the camel!
I did mention this to the camel rider, he beamed at me and explained that the Israelis had left many land mines about and this was a very good way to detect them!
Hope this helps??
2006-09-02 07:13:32
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answer #11
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answered by budding author 7
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