Seperation of church and state?

Question

is it a reality?

Answer 1

Not at all. It's a great ideal... something to strive for... but unfortunately the US can't seem to separate the two.

Oh, and for all those saying "separation of church and state doesn't exist in the constitution!", here's my response:

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If It's Not in the Constitution, then it Doesn't Exist

Myth:
The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in the Constitution.

Response:
That is true, the phrase "separation of church and state" does not actually appear anywhere in the Constitution. There is a problem, however, in that some people draw incorrect conclusions from this fact. The absence of this phrase does not mean that it is an invalid concept or that it cannot be used as a legal or judicial principle.

There are any number of important legal concepts which do not appear in the Constitution with the exact phrasing people tend to use. For example, nowhere in the Constitution will you find words like "right to privacy" or even "right to a fair trial." Does this mean that no American citizen has a right to privacy or a fair trial? Does this mean that no judge should ever invoke these rights when reaching a decision?

Of course not - the absence of these specific words does not mean that there is also an absence of these ideas.

The right to a fair trial, for example, is necessitated by what is in the text because what we do find simply makes no moral or legal sense otherwise. What the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution actually says is:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

There is nothing there about a "fair trial," but what should be clear is that this Amendment is setting up the conditions for fair trials: public, speedy, impartial juries, information about the crimes and laws, etc. The Constitution does not specifically say that you have a right to a fair trial, but the rights created only make sense on the premise that a right to a fair trial exists. Thus, if the government found a way to fulfill all of the above obligations while also making a trial unfair, the courts would hold those actions to be unconstitutional.

Similarly, courts have found that the principle of a "religious liberty" exists behind in the First Amendment, even if those words are not actually there:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
The point of such an amendment is twofold. First, it ensures that religious beliefs - private or organized - are removed from attempted government control. This is the reason why the government cannot tell either you or your church what to believe or to teach. Second, it ensures that the government does not get involved with enforcing, mandating, or promoting particular religious doctrines. This is what happens when the government "establishes" a church - and because doing so created so many problems in Europe, the authors of the Constitution wanted to try and prevent the same from happening here.

Can anyone deny that the First Amendment guarantees the principle of religious liberty, even though those words do not appear there? Similarly, the First Amendment guarantees the principle of the separation of church and state - by implication, because separating church and state is what allows religious liberty to exist.

Answer 2

As I understand it, (need to reread the constitution), there is no mention of "separation of church and state" in it. It was something Jefferson (If I remember correctly wrote in a letter to someone) and what was meant by it -- the purpose of separation, was that government should not interfere in the affairs of the church, as had been the custom of other foreign governments where it created a lot of trouble, etc. and the reason so many came here for religious freedom. We have never had a State Church!

If it meant what is now being taught by many, why would they through all these years have had prayers in the senate and in the beginning, even church services in the capitol building? Why was God mentioned so often in early documents.? To make a long story short: Government is not to interfere in the affairs of the church! We can mention God in government. We are still free to worship as we choose or not at all. Let's leave it that way. We could have it worse!

More proof, to quote the Bible: " the devil comes to steal and destroy" -- even words of those early documents which our forefathers still dared to pray over.

Answer 3

Christmas is a federal holiday So I am gonna say no. Not to mention many religious groups are trying to influence the policies of America so that they are in line with their beliefs and make people pray to their God in school. I don't think there will ever be a real seperation of church and state because our Government is based on the concept of the people having a voice and they are a portion of the people probably the loudest.

Answer 4

The state is not suppose to dictate or control the church and the church is not to be in charge of the political state of the country.
But church was not suppose to be separate from being involved in the country. Benjamin Franklin made the most important point in history concerning Christianity and religion being the most important thing this country had going for it and well the nuts have kicked out Christianity so, they started the big clock ticking towards the only result possible. F'd up, I tell you.

Answer 5

It's not included anywhere in either the Constitution or in the Bill of Rights. It has been the topic of speeches and mentioned in court rulings, but I am not sure where the original idea came from. Was it Jefferson's personal writings? I'm not sure. Anyway, it's thrown around with the same sacredness as the right to vote, or seperation of powers, but it does not have the basis in American history or in our founding documents to hold the status that it has been given.

Answer 6

It's not appropriate for teachers and faculty to intentionally promote any religion, such as through prayer or religious text. Some schools don't allwo any prayer in schools, even from students giving grace for food. Separation of church and state is a reality in this country.

Answer 7

It's all in the definition.

If a Muslim man were to capture, apprehend and bring Usama bin Laden to the US, but was assasinated in the US, we could build a monument to him. We would put a list of his achievements on a plaque, put endorsements from the President and other heads of state, but we could not put a crescent and star (the symbols of his faith) on the monument.

Why? The way we interpret separation of church and state, this would constitute an "improper endorsement" of religion on public property.

If this is reality, I must be dreaming.

Answer 8

The state should not make a religion. A state ordained religion.
This is what is meant by separation of church and state.
It is so far out of whack now, no one knows what is what.
With all this separation and PC stuff going on it is hoped the belief in Jesus will be put down. Wrong! The Gates of hell will not prevail against it.
THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU. Can't get at that. OLAY!

Answer 9

The Majority of founding Fathers of America were Christian, and documentation shows they believed it was impossible to run America without God and Morals. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IS NO WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION. the founding fathers' true intentions were to stop the government from controlling the churches and obstructing doctrine... hence comes the term separation of church and state, Their intentions were never to get rid of the knowledge of God in the Public square, Though many atheist radicals make it appear that way

Answer 10

Of course it exists as long as the Constitution is the law.

The reality is that it is being eroded a little bit more each day.

Thomas Jefferson thought it was a good idea then and it is still a good idea now.


This forum is a perfect example of why it is best to keep your religion out of the public arena. Anger, bickering, no progress, hate, it's divisive.

The government should govern not preach.