Wiccan quote " And it harm none do what you will " who defines harm?

Question

It sounds dangerous to allow the individual to define harm for themselves. One persons definition of harm may be completely diferent than another persons.
It sounds like a pretty ambiguous law to live by.
Excuse my ignorance of wicca, but do you have a leader? do you defer to a higher power?

Answer 1

Of course you are too be excused of your knowledge of Wiccan.

Unlike some of your respondents, you recognize you have limited knowledge of Wicca.

Wicca is a modern creation, primarily the venue of mental defectives and weaklings, who wish to create Gods of Goddesses or Elementals after their own images. Nietzsche, through Zarathustra pointed this out when the precursors to modern wicca were developing.

Most Wiccans and pagans point to older traditions as the source of the belief structure. However, those older traditions were proven to be non-sustainable, and detrimental to society. There is no direct link between the old ways and the modern inventions, and the cultural context creates a great deal of misunderstanding.

Trekkies are more scrupulous in their categorizations of their literary fantasies than are any Wiccan, or pagans, or any other modern creation issuing from H P Blavatsky, or Gerald Gardner, or Aleister Crowley, or H P Lovecraft, or L Ron Hubbard, or Jack Parsons, or any of those fantasy writers who sought to control other people and pretend to secret knowledge. Most of these traditions are less than one hundred years old, but borrow from fantasy and literature and speculation, largely predicated on works introduced by the Theosophical Society.

I do see one poster on this list seems to have a little sense, but make no mistake, neither Wicca nor Paganism is on the whole good for the practitioners or society at large. Most of them don't even bother to gain the benefits of those creations, which is intellectual discipline and structure.

That one poster is making a mistake if he is of one of the hereditary traditions or has studied much, as he implies, and continues to suggest that he has engaged in magic again, for retaliation against a mother causing her daughter to be used in a sex-magic ritual.

Just another amateur, poser or pretender.

Magic is serious business; one is best served by remaining faithful to the traditions they were born into.

Magic is neither black or white magic, it is simply a tool, like a hammer. If the user is unskilled, much damage can be done regardless of intent, preparation or study. It matters not if one issues the words "oh, I intended that it do no harm". Foolish Children.

You very opening statement, which is claimed by some to reflect a guideline of wicca, was originated by a different tradition, and has no place in wicca.

Answer 2

The Wiccan rede isn't a "law to live by." Rede means "advice"--it's like "don't cry over spilt milk." Something to think about, a helpful reminder, but not a law. And many people try to condense it to "harm none," which is as ridiculous as condensing the other to "don't cry."

The Rede (advice), paraphrased: If it doesn't hurt anything, do what you want.

It's *NOT* an ethical rule. It doesn't say anything about what to do if your actions would cause harm. For that, one considers the threefold law (which has various interpretations), and karma, and in some cases, the Charge of the Goddess. Wicca doesn't have any "laws," any "thou shalt nots;" it's a religion that lives in balance with the Gods and the world around us, and since those are always changing, there are no absolute rules.

Wicca has no leaders on a large scale, although many covens defer to the wisdom of their High Priestess in spiritual matters. (But that's personal, like a Christian might take the advice of a pastor--doesn't mean they think that leader speaks for the whole religion.)

Wiccans believe in taking full responsibility for their own actions--so they don't hand over their will to anyone or anything. There's no "the devil made me do it" in Wicca; if you did it, you're responsible, so Wiccans learn to be very careful about whose will they follow.

Answer 3

To address the first part of your question, yes it is up to the individual to define harm. Is that really so strange? Ultimately that's how we all function regardless of religion. We as individuals have to ultimately weigh things out and decide the right course of action for any given situation. It's always been this way.

The Wiccan rede is just that, a rede. A rede is not law. It is a word meaning "advice" or "counsel".

There is no one leader of the Wicca. We are divided into smaller groups (Traditions, Lines, Sub-Lines, and Covens). The leaders are the High Priestess and High Priest of a coven and their leadership is limited to coven matters. Some traditions allow covens to be operated by second degrees but those are still under the authority of the parent coven. Once an initiate has reached the third degree, he or she is autonomous.

Higher Power is a much trickier one to define! The reason is that Wicca leans more toward orthopraxy than orthodoxy. In our rites we pay worship to two tribal deities whose names are known only to initiates. But how the individual sees those deities is personal. Some are more pantheistic and see those deities as "aspects" of a more all encompassing divine. Some are polytheistic and view those gods as distinct sentient beings. You could add any number of "theisms" in there and you'd likely be correct!

Answer 4

First of all, that's not Wicca. That is Crowley or Thelema.

Actually kind of a wishful thinking idea. Magic, or Magick as it is spelled in the various traditions birthed from the Theosophical Society is quite powerful, but extremely unpredictable. Wicca, Bavarian Illuminati, Priory of Sion(moderns)and Thelema and several other groups evolved from the Theosophical Society, generally attributed to Helena Petrova Blavatsky.

It is just an excuse for someone to say "well I didn't mean any harm" and avoid personal responsibility. Magic can work, and it is not for fools or children to play with. I will not explain the mechanics of how magic works, because unless you are either born into it, or study long with an excellent school, it is too easy to mess up. Ever heard an eight year old say I didn't know that was going to happen.

It could very well have been incorporated into one of the myriad neo-wiccan groups. Wicca today derives primarily from Gerald Gardner. There is no organization to wicca, except some loose confederations. Some of them borrow from everything.

Crowley was really more of an Proto-Satanist(in the Christian sense) than a wiccan. He styled himself the Great Beast, and cobbled together a few mystery schools, primarily from reading books and his imagination.

He corrupted the Rabelaisian Thelema.
It now goes something like:

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Love is the law, love under will
There is no Law beyond Do what thou wilt

The greatest error of Crowley, and many who followed him was in misunderstanding what he was reading, and further corrupting it, and presenting it to be even further corrupted.

That's enough for now.

See also: Order of the Golden Dawn, Thelema, Ordo Templi Orientalis, and Argenteum Astra(usually abbreviated A:A:, except with three dots arranged in a triangle rather than a colon).


Addendum: Oh really moonshadow. I know a woman who was convinced she was doing good to initiate her daughter into sex-magic, and they still used that damned phrase. The chief wiccan was just using the guise of wicca to impress their will on others. didn't mean any harm. Huge war. Huge returns.

Summary addendum: Yes, it is VERY DANGEROUS for someone to define what harm may come to others unless they have absolute and complete knowledge. By definition noone has that level of knowledge. Anything else is a variant of egoism.

In a way, wicca, paganism, thelema and all the others kind of remind me of cafeteria Catholicism, except they went another buffet, and tried to fit it into their own fantasies.

Answer 5

It sounds very straight forward to me. It just depends on the situation and the people involved what is considered harm. You alone don't decide it. If you find out something that bothers someone you don't do it around that person anymore. If they are Okay with it then it is fine to do it. That is how you handle a gray issue, which is something that common sense has trouble deciding. Something accidental is not considered intentional harm. If you harm no one then you have done nothing immoral so there is no need for a list of morals because this one covers any moral law that can ever be written.


I'm not Wiccan and even I can see that.

Answer 6

It is the same as "do on to others as you like them bla bla" or like "thou shall not kill" and then Christians changed it to "thou shall not murder" so that they can still kill people that don't agree with their ways and beliefs systems. Wicca believs in intentions though. So your heart defines "harm" harm can be the slightest of things you do to others. I don't see how a group of people will have a better understaning of harm than an individual. I group of people are normally much more stupid than a individual person.

Answer 7

to some people, the very fact of knowing others are practicing Wicca is causing them Psychological harm.

Answer 8

>>"modern-day information of the nationwide Cemetary being allowed to apply a Wiccan image on headstones, brings this question to ideas... "<< why? why do you care? wanting it particularly is they are pagans, and don't belive in doing issues that injury others. they do no longer worship a devil or something like that.

Answer 9

Just as dangerous as any other religion.

Like, say your god commands "Thou shalt not kill" and then shortly later he commands you to kill every canaanite (or amelikite), men, women, children, and livestock. And then go on to command other law like: If a man lies with a man as he does with a woman then they shalt both be stoned to death. Sounds like religious doctrine contradicts even istelf, if it is not misused by it's followers

Answer 10

If you hurt somone it's harm. That doesn't include yourself.
Hurt is mental, physical, whatever. Harm is harm.

"lest ye harm none, do what thow wilt"

Sounds easy, not complicated like catholocism.

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