To Pledge or not to Pledge?

Question

In recent years there has been a movement to seperate Church and State to the point of removing the Pledge of Allegience from school rooms because of the phrase "One nation under God". The question that I have is If this is an offensive topic to those who don't believe in God(or other deity for that matter) what issue would you have with teachers who choose to say the pledge offering to dismiss your child to the hallway for a minute while those children, whose parents do not oppose the pledge recite it?

I don't see this as merely a religion issue but a support for our country issue and a pledge to stand up for all that our nation stands for.

True the pledge as we know it was amended in the 50's (or I actually think a little earlier ) to contain "under God" and I think reverting back to the original verses would be a steller Idea but what consideration would you give the option I have given? And yes I realize that children are asked to rise but not made to recite. What I am saying is why not let them leave for a minute so as to not have to be "insulted" by listening to something that they are raised not believing in. Not to be forced to listen to religion in any form even as inacuas as "under God"

And for the record I am a devout Catholic and have no problem with the pledge as it is but understand the feelings that some may have about its religious wording...

I do not mean to say single out as an "oddball" by sending them to hall but rather give those who are truely offended the opportunity to leave if they choose... Make it a Choice.

Answer 1

The Pledge was written in 1892 but it wasn't until the '50s that the addition was made, first off. During the Cold War era, in 1953, that the Knights of Columbus (a Roman Catholic men's group) petitioned to add the phrase "under God" to the pledge. Congress did not approve this addition. In February 1954, President Eisenhower attended a church sermon where Rev. George Docherty spoke regarding the pledge. He said, "Apart from the mention of the phrase 'the United States of America,' it could be the pledge of any republic. In fact, I could hear little Muscovites repeat a similar pledge to their hammer-and-sickle flag in Moscow." Eisenhower agreed with this sentiment, word spread, and it can be reasoned that because good Americans (Christians, by default) did not want to be associated with Communist ideals, many also began to support this addition to the pledge. And I also think it's reasonable to assume that some people did not want to state dissenting opinions due to the political climate of the era. So the phrase was added to the Pledge.

Really, the Pledge doesn't reflect our country's religious traditions (because America's "traditions" are not nearly so Christian as we are meant to believe) so much as a political climate of a certain era (fearing "commies," atomic bombs, and nuclear war mixed with Christianity and peer pressure). And if the Pledge doesn't reflect the traditions it purports to, then this isn't really a pledge "to stand up for all that our nation stands for" if our nation never really stood for it.

In answer to your question, "what issue would you have with teachers who choose to say the pledge offering to dismiss your child to the hallway for a minute while those children, whose parents do not oppose the pledge recite it?":

When I was in elementary school, being told to stand in the hallway by yourself was used as a punishment. If a child (a young child, say kindergarten/first grade) does not fully understand why his parents have made the decision that he should not say the Pledge as it is currently written, he will feel that he is being punished. Not understanding the reasons, he will likely grow to disagree with his parent(s) based solely on the fact that all of his friends get to to do something that he imagines must be fun, if only because he isn't allowed.

Also, some children who are raised in devoutly-religious households develop (and are raised to develop) negative attitudes regarding "the unsaved" and how Christians are better than "the godless heathens." There also seems to be a correlation between Christians = Good Patriotic Americans while Other Religions/Nonreligious = Bad Americans/"Freedom Haters." Depending on the area of the school, the general political climate, etc., the number of Christians will greatly outnumber the "others". And I think it's reasonable to assume that some non-Pledgers will be ostracized much more for leaving during the Pledge than simply if they stood there and recited with everyone else.

And don't forget that not all people who support the removal of the phrase are atheists/non-Christian. Some of them are Christians, but who also believe in keeping church and state separate for many reasons. If the church is allowed to get involved with state matters (science curriculum in public schools, for instance), isn't it reasonable to assume that the state should be allowed to get involved with religious matters? Shouldn't the state be allowed to decide what Sunday School books your local congregation can use? No?

Why? Because you believe in freedom of religion? Well, so does everyone else (or they should, anyway) and this freedom means that it really isn't likely that 100% of the population will believe in the same religion.

You can't have it both ways.

Answer 2

I agree that it is a support for our country, and was devastated when they took it away, my sons don't really know it. The pledge is to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it stands... the pledge is not to the rest of the words which are describing our nation, and i think everyone should have to say it every monday through friday. So First they took the pledge away, then for the longest time we were allowed to burn the flag ( which represents our country. ) some of my family has been here since the 1700's and for the sake of those people who died in the American Revolutionary war to make this country I think we should have more respect for those people and for our country. But i have a feeling that respect is gone, and the people who want to take us over are starting to get their way.

Answer 3

I'm gonna take crap for this.

I like the pledge the way it is. I realize "under God" was added later but really very few religions don't believe in some kind of god. And we are guaranteed freedom of religion, that's why the forefathers came here. Atheism is not a religion it is a lack of religion, and last I checked this was a democracy(Majority rule not minority). If you don't want to say the pledge, don't but we shouldn't change something for a minority so long as it's not harming them.

Answer 4

The only reason i would not send the child into the hall is that it will stigmatize them as being weird or odd. I would allow the child to stand, but they need no say anything.

For those that wish to recite it, but have problems with the "under God" portion, they need not say that part.

I would, as a teacher, explain what the pledge means and that it is not just words; otherwise, you might as well be Bongo from Matt Groening's "Life In Hell" comic who pledges:

"I pledge allegiance to Frank Zappa of the United Mutations of America and to the Duke of Prunes and Grand Wazoo for which he stands. One Size Fits All, excentrifugal, with Yellow Skarks and Hot Rats for all."

Answer 5

How many people who are on the side of "Keep 'Under God' in the Pledge" realize that those words weren't originally IN the Pledge, that they were added in 1954 as a result of a campaign by the Knights of Columbus during the Cold War against "Dem Godless Commies"?

Answer 6

Well, as an interesting note, originally the Pledge did not include that phrase, "under God"--that was added by Christians afterward. So the traditional version does not contain those words.

I'm an atheist, and I have no problem saying the Pledge. I don't even think about the "under God'--for me, it's like Santa Claus: something magic that we'd all like to believe exists, but probably does not.

Answer 7

I believe the words "under god" in the pledge of allegiance was put there during the 1950's because of the red scare. You know all atheist are commies rhetoric. Well we are no longer in the cold war, under god is outdated. Thomas Jefferson didn't believe in Christ, so don't start with the whole this is a christian country speech. He believe in separation of church and state.

Answer 8

EXCELLENT! These are nearly the mirrored words I tell everyone. They will not accept it however... the heathen children will try to hold their ground.

When it comes right down to it... democracy or no democracy, any type of government. The morals originally drafted by the Bible hold a firm basis. Atheists are embarrassed to say things like this in the pledge, and would be even more embarrassed to walk out while others are saying it. I find it funny when I see it on the news. They just will not say uncle to the big ol' brother! Just like a little child.

Answer 9

What's the big deal with keeping your mouth shut and standing? Please you want to make me move my mouth and recite words if I have the freedom to speak then I also have the fredom not to speak! And now you are going to put me in the hall as the "odd ball" so others can make fun of me simply because I do not believe in the pledge. In the fact, that I could easily change my mind after my teen angst years of being angry towards authority. Are you kidding me? Were you ever a teenager? EVER? Did you follow every single rule mom and dad spoon fed you? Please. If we were all so obedient we would still believe the world was flat. THINK for YOURSELF. BE STRONG. God is STRONG, and whether or not you believe in "THEIR" God does not matter in this issue. You should NOT seperate children from other children especially if they have the freedom of speech which also means they have the freedom from speech. Just remember what it was like to be a teenager for once. Just remember that "one god" and "one country" is not the only thing on a teenagers mind. Life is so much more than a pledge. To pledge, serve and the die with what you think is honor and it only turns out to be a false war. No I don't have to be talking about Iraq, I could be talking about Vietnam. Lest you forget about history as it repeats. You must broaden your mind to other issues here. The issue is not to force beliefs on our children, what is most important is to provide them the choice of what makes the most sense to them. No matter how extreme it seems to us and we should NEVER ever seperate them simply because of their beliefs.

Answer 10

I don't believe in god but i think it should stay the same as it is now because it reminds me of the pledge that knights of the old code would say and in a way it suggests a nobler thing to believe in. One nation under god makes me feel like i can believe in the nation and country that say this and heck I'm Canadian, it implies trust worthiness.