LDS (Mormons), Joseph Smith, Jesus Christ, and Paul?

Question

I have some LDS friends, but still no answer, and would love enlightenment. ;)

I am a Christian, technically go to a Baptist church but they call themselves Baptipresbycostals. ;) I believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God; however, my faith is not based on that, but rather on the belief that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, died on the cross to take my punishment, and rose again on the third day.

For example: I believe that everything Paul wrote in his New Testament letters is true and God-breathed. However, if it turned out that Paul was a lunatic with a mental illness, I would be surprised but my faith would not be shaken. This is because my faith is not based on Paul, but on Jesus. If, however, it turned out Jesus was a lunatic with a mental illness, then my faith is SHOT.

Let’s say it turns out that Joseph Smith was a lunatic with a mental illness. If so, LDS has nothing; it's shot. Doesn't this mean that LDS faith is based on Joseph Smith, not Jesus Christ?

Okay, so apparently, NO ONE understands the point of my question.

Did anyone even actually read the whole thing?

Never mind. *sigh* I'll go ask another LDS friend, they actually listen.

Okay, stop lecturing me about converting. Am I not allowed to ask simple questions? Why is everyone so defensive?

Answer 1

Hi,
I belong to the Church of jesus christ of Latter-Day saints.
I think I understand your question.
In other words what you are saying is if Joseph Smith Did not have the first vision then the LDS church is just at best another church on church street so to speak.
I agree with you. but have you attended any Lds meetings or studied with the missionaries like i have you might find that there is more to it than appears at first glance.
For our basic beliefs see www.mormon.org

Answer 2

The LDS beliefs are not Biblically based. Although I can prove this by quoting Pauline Scripture, I don't want you to worry this will, some day, be "shot!"

Jesus told us repeatedly in the Gospels that false teachers and false prophets would come. Compare LDS beliefs with what you know Jesus spoke and even the Old Testament; you will find many glaring contradictions. For example, Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers, fighting over whose plan of salvation was best. Jesus' was chosen, which ticked off Satan. The OT tells us repeatedly that the Messiah was part of a triune God (for example, see Psalm 45:7 and Isaiah 53); since Satan was a cherub (Eze. 28:16), this alone makes all other LDS claims questionable. And let's not forget their biggest error: that God was once a man (Adam), who is now glorified. This is absolute blasphemy.

I firmly believe the "gospel" given to Joseph Smith by an "angel" contradicts Paul's God-inspired warning at Galatians 1:

"8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."

By these standards, we can be very certain that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and teacher.

Peace.

Answer 3

I think your question is well meant, but considering the internal allowable language of LDS(mormons) it can not be heard in the way you intend it.

If I were to attempt (poorly) to translate what I understand your intention to be into "Mormon" then it might be something like:
I hate you though I dont know you. Everything you have ever been taught to you in your life, every positive church role model, and your family is totally wrong and utterly decieved, and everyone you know and care about including you is going to hell.

They have engineered their culture so a question like that cant be asked without giving a grievious offense.

As a Christian, I have several mormon friends. They work hard, and have a commitment to integrity that is rare. They pursue God as they know him vigorously and with perseverance. The best thing I have ever seen, something that might give you a framework for speaking a gospel, that translated into the mormon language is still the gospel is something from here: link

It turns out that most of the theology of the book of mormon is in-line with biblical theology. Their founding prophet wrote that the book of mormon is the "fulness of the everlasting gospel", so you can speak to them with the Book of Mormon, and show them what you understand the true gospel to be. The wierdness, and cult-behaviors of the mormons dont come from the book of mormon as much as they come from the later works, the "Doctrine and Covenants" and "Pearl of Price", other mormon additions to the bible.

If you are out to make a convert, dont even talk to your friend. Nobody likes to be a project, and its lying about being a friend on a false premise. Liars go to hell. Be real, be loving, be gentle and be truthful. Be a real friend, whether or not they can understand your heart, and the beliefs you cherish. Being real means speaking truth, but it means never speaking truth without it being in love.

Answer 4

I used to be LDS myself. The problem with thier theology is that they believe that the works that we do on earth determine what part of heaven we get to go to. That theology contradicts the scripture that says that we cannot enter into heaven by works along, but only by the grace of God. Also they believe that Jesus was a prophet, not God in the flesh. They believe that he is Messiah, but not God. The old testiment name for Messiah is Immanuel. The literal translation for Immanuel is "God with us". Christ said his self that he and God are one, That when we look upon his face we see the face of the father, and that he is in the father, and the father is in him. Now the LDS belief that he is only a prophet and not God is contradicted in these scriptures. Finnally, all thoughout the old testiment, God said that none could heal the blind but God alone. Of all who came in the name of God, only Christ was able to heal the blind. Now you may say that his diciples were able to do the same, but they were only able to do it through thier faith, and in the name of Jesus Christ. This is further proof that Jesus is God. On a side note, no one can forgive sin, but God alone. Christ said that he would forgive the sins of the world.

Answer 5

Remember they also called Jesus a lunatic.
Your faith is personal.
The faith of the Mormons is also personal.
Respect each others' faith.

Answer 6

Certainly, if Joseph Smith was a lunatic it shoots most of what most Mormons believe to h... literally, but at the core of Joseph Smith s teachings was Christ, at least he didn t start out as a self admitted murderer of the followers of Christ like Paul.
If you are a Christian than Christ must come first, but you have to believe someone s version of it unless you can get it directly from the source yourself. Alas we don t have any direct writing of Christ, wouldn t that be awesome. It turns out that like Joseph Smith, Paul taught a lot of things that we don t get anywhere else in the Bible. So if you find out Paul was a lunatic, there are a lot of things that most "Christians" would have to throw out, I might mention that some of the things Paul taught are disregarded by the majority of Christians (i.e. It s best to not marry, but it s better to marry than sin).
The Mormons would have a lot more to throw out, certainly, but I assume that most well raised Mormons that decide Joseph Smith is a false prophet still believe in Christ. But the simple fact is that all our "knowledge" of Christ comes from other parties, and short of going to God ourselves there isn t a way to know.
To take you question a step further, if Christ was a lunatic (as the Jews believed) does that shoot down God? No, not necessarily, but it does mean that a lot of us (actually a minority on Earth) are deluded. What about Buddha or Zoroaster? You ll find that a the base of any religion on earth there is a point where you either have to take someone s word for it or somehow find out for yourself by going to the top.
My personal opinion is that was done on purpose to encourage us to make that personal connection. But every time you don t believe something you are making a choice just as when you believe something, you are either right or wrong both ways.

Answer 7

Um, EXACTLY. Joseph Smith added what he wanted to the Bible to "make it his own." And those who believe it are nothing but Looney's in my opinion. Their "racist" in the fact that they believe "they" are the ONLY ONES worthy and no one else is worthy to step foot into their sanctuaries.

They had NOTHING TO DO WITH CAFFEINE UNTIL THEY BOUGHT UP MOST OF COCA-COLA, THEN BAM!, COKES OKAY! Wow, must be nice to have a scripture so easily re-written!

I almost cried for you when you said that your faith wouldn't be shaken over Paul, but it would be over Joseph Smith, dear God, one of Christ's own CHOSEN BROTHERS and you'd have no problem casting him aside over some, well, never mind.

Answer 8

The whole Joseph Smith thing is so thin a premise as to be complete nonsense. But then again, so is most of the bible.

Believe what you wish to believe, just don't force it on me or try to make laws based on your beliefs and we'll all be just fine.

Answer 9

Joseph Smith was a lunatic. No offense to anyone.

Answer 10

There is a technical term for you guys: You are all "Wackjobs"....