Asking respectfully -- Why is it that some Christians insist that even atheists 'believe' in God (continued)

Question

Is it so foreign a thought to a Christian to think that perhaps someone has neither an urge to believe in a divine being nor a belief in one?

I do not believe in a god of any kind, by any name. I have no 'inner prompting' that I should be seeking one. I do not hate God, Yahweh or otherwise, because to hate a god I would have to acknowledge one exists. I am not afraid of Hell nor hopeful for Heaven because I don't believe these places exist. I don't believe it on the surface, and I don't believe it 'deep down'. To believe one thing on the surface but another 'deep down' would be hypocracy.

I live as moral a life as I can because we evolved to be social creatures and altruism is a pro-adaptive trait in social creatures. I do not need a divine being to convince me of the advantages of being moral.

Some Christians are content to accept that I believe what I believe. But honestly, what's up with the other Christians who need to make me 'believe' in their eyes?

For reference: I am not asking why they feel the need to convert me. I understand why they feel that need.

I'm asking why they feel the need to believe that I believe in something or at least feel an urge to believe, even before I am converted.

And as much as I respect my fellow Agnostics & Atheists, this one is genuinely meant for Christians who are inclined to do what my question is about. Please don't post to slam them. I made a promise in my subject line 'Asking Respectfully'. I would like to keep that promise.

AC28 -- I don't believe in God at all. I cannot fear what I don't believe in.

But thank you for proving my point that some Christians do in fact do what I'm asking about.

A number of people are still missing my point. I'm specifically not asking why they feel they should spread their religion. I understand that -- their religion commands them to do so.

Some of them, however, will make the claim, as did ac28, that I *DO* in fact believe in a god, and just lack the proper respect or inclination towards god.

This is what I am asking about. Ultimately, these christians believe that everyone 'really' believes in god and that some people just reject him or hate him or whatever. I want to know why it is they feel that everyone has this belief.

Altruism, by the way, is pro-adaptive, as I asserted. Evolution does not care about the survival of one individual, it cares about the survival of genes. If I sacrifice my life but ensure that three family members survive, a large percent of the genes I carry will continue on through my family members, who have close genetic ties to me.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~strone01/altruism.html

As a 'pure' Atheist, as someone put it, I do not believe in a God. However, I do see value in listening to other people's view points. To understand people is to be better able to work with them. Religion is one of the most defining traits of current human existence. To understand people then, one must understand the various viewpoints of religion.

And it takes faith, indeed, to be a 'pure' atheist (I use the quotes because the term isn't the one I'd like but it's the best I've heard so far). To be truly faithless, one must actually be agnostic. It is agnosticism that follows the ideal of "man hasn't the capacity to prove or disprove the existence of a god, and the question is therefore irrelevant." That's the true faithlessness.

Pascal's Wager, the idea that, "If God exists, then belief is rewarded and disbelief is punished, but if God does not exist, they are treated equally," doesn't work. First, Christians assert that lip-service is insufficient -- you must truly believe. For me to believe in my current mental framework would be lipservice, nothing more. Secondly, let us turn it around.

"Belief in Odhinn is better than belief in God. For if Odhinn exists, belief in him will be rewarded, but belief in God will be punished. If there is no Odhinn, then both are treated equally."

You can apply this to any divinity you like and come to the contradiction. Pascal's wager is logically invalid. I can construct this into formal logical calculus if any mathematicians would care for me to do so.

I phrased the Odhinn question erroneously. My apologies.

"If Odhinn exists, belief in Odhinn is rewarded, disbelief is punished. If Odhinn does not exist, then we are equal in death."

"If Brahma exists, belief in Brahma is rewarded, disbelief is punished. If Brahma does not exist, then we are equal in death."

The assertion here is not that I should believe in one of them, but that I should believe in BOTH. And so long as the divinities do not MIND me worshiping and believing in everyone, I'd agree. However, most divinities are a touch jealous and don't like you worshipping outside the pantheon. Once you add Yahweh to the mix, it falls apart, because Believing in yahweh and odhinn both is a contradiction, for yahweh asserts he is the one and only true god.

tazcm2001 -- Are you asserting that atheism leads to drug abuse? Or that drug abuses leads to atheism?

For the record, I do no drugs except those prescribed by a medical doctor, with the occasional drink, but not to drunkenness. I have no 'hole' that I need to fill in my existence.

However, you got very close to actually trying to answer my question. Why is it you believe that I feel a hole in my life? I don't, but it intrigues me that some Christians seem to think I must.

Answer 1

First of all I am a Catholic and firm in my belief, so that said I'll get to the point.

Christians (all) can not understand why someone would deny the existance of a (in our opinion) a loving and compassionate being that will in the end raise up our souls and give them eternal life.

The proof for God does not exist except in the writtings of men and any that may exist has never been found... Some even disproven. but Belief is just that Belief and when someone says they don't believe it causes Believers to question why even though they really have no reason for the answer if turned onto themselves.

Simply stated We believe in God with no proof and many of us can not understand why an Atheist would not "Jump on the Boat" We fear what we do not understand and attack that which we find is against what we believe to be true. A Christian can not wrap their head around someones lack of belief and therefor we insist that an Atheist must believe in something. I for one think the latter. Maybe you believe that you will have a peanut butter sandwich for lunch or that your team is better than mine but you do believe in something. It may not be in a God, but you believe in something


Thanks for Calling and Have a nice day.

Answer 2

You would have to be about the most courteous atheist I have ever come accross. Your question is direct, firm and raises a good point, while still being polite about it. I appreciate that you haven't come here to just slam Christians and I appreciate that you haven't lumped all Christians into the one "I have to convert you no matter what" group. As an American citizen, I am free to choose to believe what I want, and so are you. Therefore, since I believe that God has given us all free will and our Constitution guarantees that freedom of choice, no matter how I feel about you being an atheist, I support you 100% in your decision. I will make no efforts to convert you, you have no desire to be converted. However, I would like to say one thing that someone once told me long ago. Suppose that you are right and there is no God and no heaven or hell. Then at the end of our lives, I lose nothing, since there is nothing to be lost or gained. We are equal in death. Now just suppose that the Bible is right. When you and I are both dead, you will have lost everything. I know that you say you feel nothing, no urge to believe and I believe that. I just wanted to present you with a small riddle of sorts to ponder. Good luck to you and I hope that you find the answer that you are seeking.

Answer 3

Couple of issues - altruism is about as un-pro-adaptive as you can get. How much progress would you make if you contiunally gave everyone else everything you had aquired?

Also, morals & laws are two different things. One may think it's fine to have extra-marital affairs simply because they're not happy with their spouse. However, the law (divorce-wise) says it's not. Same with pedophiles - they think it's morally acceptable to molest children; law says it's not OK.

Like it or not, most laws today have their basis in Biblical law, not because someone just decided they'd be good rules to live by.

Oh yea, one other thing. I'm a Christian. My beliefs may mean nothing to you, but that doesn't mean they're not true.

If you, or anyone else chooses to believe you have no Creator, that's up to you. The God that created me says otherwise.

Answer 4

It is very simple. You cannot disbelieve something you do not believe. It is also the theory of "0". What is a zero ? It is "nothing" but you still believe in Zero and use it in plenty. So by saying there is no God you are actually saying there is God. But believe me in this world we need people like you and then only other people can understand religion and belief in God. It is like if you have bad then only you know the value of Good. Can you imagine if everything is so good how can you differentiate anything in this world. Same principle applies for light and darkness. Hence, please for the sake of good humanity, I would request you to remain as you are.

Answer 5

It's a prop canned and ready to open. They are shallow and all that matters is the name you possess. If it were about morality that would me examining their own life. This way they get to live like pagans but confess a righteousness. It's how they bait you into a trap by the mere acknowledgment you don't believe implies belief in god. The door open if you bite they start the super babble. The most immoral people I know are believers in Christ but they feel no shame. I'm sure your morality offends their sensibilities. So they must chain you to the lowest common denominator belief in god.

Answer 6

This is a very good question and asked repectfully. I am not Christian so I can't really give you an answer but I do hope to maybe learn a little something from the answers you do get. I think that there will always be those who don't understand or refuse to and it's saddening to think that way but there is always hope.

Hope you find the answer you seek.

Blessed Be )O(

Answer 7

Hello JP,

Most Chrisitans are told by Jesus to go into all of the world and preach the Gospel. That is they are given the command to tell everyone the message of the gospel. That message is Jesus died and rose again. It is just part of the belief system.

That is all it is with many Christians.

Hope that helps.

Answer 8

It's a psychological game they play to try to turn the tables on their own inner conflict. People that insist that everyone believes in god, in spite of the evidence to the contrary, are simply trying to convince themselves that their belief is justified.

Answer 9

cristians believe in god no matter what and some dont seem to grasp the idea that atheists do not believe in any higher being of the sort. some have such faith they dont know any other life without god.

Answer 10

Maybe they feel they're searching because athiests seem to spend a lot of time and energy in the 'religion and spirituality' section on yahoo question and answers. If athiests don't believe in anything 'deepdown' or otherwise, why do they even come here?
If being a Christian reduces my I.Q. I'd gladly give away my upper one percentile IN THE WORLD I.Q. status to the lowest on Earth in order to stay Christian.