A question for Christians.?

Question

I am tired of Christians asserting that they believe the Bible, literally. So I have this to ask you:
1) Refer to LEVITICUS 18:22
2) Refer to LEVITICUS 11:9-12
Both homosexuality and shrimp are considered abominations, but I doubt that you have turned down Red Lobster for your beliefs. Why is it okay to take some passages literally and others not?

Now refer to http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
Explain every one of these using clear, prescise arguments with facts and logic, not opinions or some other passage in the bible.

Now refer to http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm .
Write a clear and detailed description of why the Christians who committed all of these atrocities throughout history are any different from Christians today trying to impede mankind's progression through science.

Only once you have completed this will I accept another Christian literally interpreting the Bible for use in a theological argument / discussion. Thank you.

THE BIBLE IS WHAT IT IS..IF IT SAYS IT'S A SIN TO BE GAY THEN IT'S A SIN

Yeah, sure, I understand that you believe that and understand why (because it's in the Bible, in Leviticus)
However, in the same chapter of Leviticus, not too far away, is a series of verses saying that certain animals that live under water, including shrimp, mollusks, mussels, clams, and lobsters are "abominations," and that we should not eat them. So have you ever READ that passage? Have you ever EATEN shrimp or lobster? If so, you have obviously committed a sin described as an "abomination." That happens to be the SAME word used to desribe homosexuality in the SAME CHAPTER. Can you really say that homosexuality is worse than eating shrimp when the bible just considers both of them abominations?

Answering the first only. Peter had a dream where every thing edible was on a white sheet. That included lobster.

Did you even READ the verses LEVITICUS 11:9-12, or did you just ASSUME what they said? They directly describe lobsters and shrimp. If Peter did have such a dream, there is get another glaring contradiction in the bible.

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

To the people that are saying that this was added to prevent illness, I have another question: why the Bible? If this is the inspired word of God and all, what's the point of adding little health tips in there, disguised as God's word? What's next, adding ancient laws to the Bible and disguising it as God's word? If you say that was added, how can you be sure the entire thing isn't just a rule book that convinces people that they cannot escape punishment - a ways of controlling the masses?

Answer 1

Ephesians 2:15 Through his body on the cross, Christ put an end to the law with all its commands and rules. He wanted to create one new group of people out of the two. He wanted to make peace between them.
Galatians 2:16 We know that no one is made right with God by obeying the law. It is by believing in Jesus Christ. So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus. That is so we can be made right with God by believing in Christ, not by obeying the law. No one can be made right with God by obeying the law.
Galatians 2:21 I do not get rid of the grace of God. What if a person could become right with God by obeying the law? Then Christ died for nothing!

You have to take things in their context. Who was told to do something?...

For instance: Hosea 1:2 The LORD began to speak through me. He said to me, “Go. Get married to a woman who will commit adultery. Take as your own the children who will be born as a result of her adultery. Marry her because the people of the land are guilty of the worst kind of adultery. They have not been faithful to me.”

Obviously this command was intended for you. You must go marry a hooker right now!

Answer 2

I will not take the time to answer each of these personally. If you truly want to know the answers then the effort should come from you. If you do not want to learn, then I would be casting my pearls to swine.

For your leviticus question read Acts 10. It is very clear.


For your contradictions see the following site. It may not correspond exactly, but it is enough for anyone to see that most of these so called contadictions only exist if one intentionally misinterprets the bible. The exceptions are the copyist's errors which have been left in because the scriptures are respected so much that nobody wants to make the wrong "correction".

http://www.apologeticspress.org/allegeddiscrepancies/

As for the atrocities committed by Christians- No kidding!! Do you alledge that only Christians have committed these act? Do you think that they never happened before Christ? The truth is that these things have gone on forever. History is full of many acts just like these. The difference is that Christians have a standard that tell us it is wrong. Christianity does not physically force someone to do good instead of evil. No one has ever made such a claim. Nor does it bind our tongue if we should attempt to lie. Thinking impure thoughts does not mysteriously induce a coma. No, Christianity as it relates to this topic, merely teaches us how to tell what is right from wrong. Sometimes we only learn after the fact. That trait is shared by non-Christians as well. What makes us different however is that our guide for what is right or wrong is the bible. It has not changed. Non Christians judgement of right and wrong can change as quickly as the wind.
So to judge Christians or our ethics by listing only the atrocities reeks of dishonesty. If you want to have any credibility you should also list the good works done by Christians. For example you could note that the movement to end slavery in America was begun and driven by Christians. Or, since you mentioned the halocaust, you could note that Christians such as the Ten Boom family literally gave their lives in order to save as many Jews as possible. In fact, because they continued to help Jews escape even after they had already helped so many, you could say that they had resigned themselves to helping until they were caught.
Nor should you make the mistake of comparing the morals of Christians from 400 yrs ago to nonchristians of today. If you want to see the true impact of Christianity you should compare the behavior of Christians of 400 yrs ago with nonchristians of 400 yrs ago. You will find that although both were committing horrible acts, there were also other Christians calling for it to stop.

So all in all. I am not even the slightest bit embarrassed about being a Christian or our history. It is our faults that bring about our need for Christ.

Answer 3

Whew, I wish I had a dollar for every time this has been brought up.
God gave the laws in the OT for many reasons. One of them was health. Would you believe He actually had a law about where to go to eliminate, and covering your waste when you are through? Did they really need to be told that? Evidently. We don't follow that law any more, because we have indoor plumbing...cool, huh? Have you ever tried to keep shellfish fresh in the desert without a fridge or even an ice chest? Not good!! But, how did these people know that shellfish that had not been refrigerated properly could kill them? They needed to be told!
Have you noticed that most of the no no animals in the list are carrion eaters? Did you know that eating animals that eat carrion is unhealthy? Ask your doc.
OK...next...(this could get long)
Gee, I could be days going through this list of contradictions you have here...and nobody would read my answer anyhow, cuz it would be five pages long, at least! Sure, there are places where different writers got their dates a bit skewed, heck that happens in secular history too.
Judas...he hung himself...he fell headlong (the rope broke?) and his bowels gushed out...(that one was off the top of my head, tossed in free)
OK, next...
I see we have listed a great many atrocities committed by "Christians" here...some of them, obviously, in a bid for power, just like any other ruler, but some of them, not so clear.
The Crusades, for instance...were the Christians actually agressors or defenders, here? Should we sit quietly by and let Christians (or anyone else for that matter) be killed by some other religious group? That may sound silly, but give it some thought...would you want an Arab (or anyone, for that matter) sneaking into your bedroom some night to behead you, because he wanted your property? And, if he did, would you be grateful if there happened to be a knight nearby, complete with armor, to dispatch the invader? LOL, yeah, sounds corny, in our nice, well policed, well lighted suburbs with dishwashers and washer/dryer combos, tvs and snacks in the fridge...but it was a reality to a great many people during these Crusades.
Remember too, that there are religious fanatics all over the place. Some of them are screaming for war, war, and more war. Hopefully, it will never happen here...or...wait...9/11?? Maybe it could! And, MAYBE you might see the Crusades in a different light...
Now, I'm not typing all this so that you will accept the Bible "literally". Heck we all know that there is alot of symbolism in there, Jesus freely admits that He speaks in "parables", for goodness sake! No...I am typing in the hopes of giving you a better understanding of why Christians believe as they do. Hopefully, you will realize that, while many Christians do seem hopeless, not all of us are complete idiots.
Maybe you will never come to a true belief in Christ, or maybe you will...but hopefully, you will be a bit more tolerant in the future.
Thank you.

EDIT:
Congrats. This is the LONGEST answer I have ever given! I should have stuck to something simple like "You are spiritually blind" or some other generic comment...but hey, you asked, and I did my best to answer....

Answer 4

sorry but you really do not understand the Bible as these sites you listed do not want to understand it either. I dont even know why im wasting my time on this but here goes..

First the idea of sin. First Homosexuality and Shell fish

The answer to this is simple WE ALL ARE SINNERS. The weight of one sin over another is not our place to judge. But when asked is homosexuality wrong? yes it is a sin. but again its not my place to judge. The problem exists when Gays want to marry. They are asking God to bless their marriage and therefore clearly written in the Bible their Sin. God blessing sin? umm no.

infidels.org - they are not using facts and logic. once again they are using the age old technique of taking out bits and pieces of the bible to make a point.. you CAN NOT take bits and pieces out. At the least you need to understand the surrouding message. But its better to read and understand the Bibles message in its entirety. Its like politics.. here is a site that obviously has an agenda. And its common practice in politics to use an opposing candidates speach take out certain "sound bites" to use against that candidate in a negitive fashion.. even though the speach in its entirety may have been a speach to the Farmers of America, about subsidies and foreign trade. The other candidtate took out portions of this speach and made it sound like the politician was talking about Raising Taxation. True story that happend btw.

Now your next step is the one that really disturbs me and if you would actually do a question search you would see the 1000's of times this question has been asked and answered. Theres actually two different parts to your statement. The atrocites that christians caused in history. First of all to Sin is Human, Not christian. Meaning all Humans sin. And this part of the statement you made is kind of an absolute. Just because someone says this is Gods way doesnt automatically make them christian by association. Many men have done this throughout history saying "this is God's will" and "to disagree is unchristian" blah blah blah.. just because they say it makes them christian? and actually doing God's will? even if they firmly believed that is was God's will and not some ploy on their part to use peoples Faith as a means to their own ends ... which i highly doubt but for the sake of argument lets say that they Truely believed in what they were doing as Gods will. Then they were more than likely wrong.. but im christian and can not judge their actions. There judgement day has already come and gone a long time ago. Now lets say that they are Christians and know that their actions was a sin, then even though their actions were devious and resulted in 1000's being killed.. They can ask for Forgiveness and Repent of their wrong and still be saved. But keep in Mind that Repenting of ones Sin is harder than just saying "God forgive me". Of corse the 3rd option is that they were not Christians in this case whatever they said and did is irrelavent. they are doomed.

Now as far as Christians impedeing science. 1st look at the world, and where science florishes. in these area's (countries) the christian population is 60% or more So its kind of strange that you bring this up. Could you maybe please show proof that its Christians that are impedeing science? I believe Science will eventually prove to itself that their is a God something we christians already know..

... maybe your talking about stem cell research? perhaps? well i just read an article today that they are discovering a way to have their research without destroying the embryo. I wonder if this little discovery wouldve even been found if Christians were not balking a bit at the research. Impedeing Science? i think not

Answer 5

I have read your sites and understand your anger. I have read your scriptures and agree with them 100%. This world is in a state of confussion and time is runnig out. Even if there were no Prophacies to see that man can not continue in this way because they will destoy themselves with STD's that have been created from breaking these two Laws of the creator that you point out. Our bobies were not meant to eat these things and other things that this world chooses to eat. They bring disease because we were told by the one that created us that they are unclean to us. (Lev. 11) As far as (Lev. 18) it's the same rule we were told not to do this as well. It's all about obediance and this world is so caught up in pleasing themselves that they don't see these Laws.
I see that you have found Places where the scripture are apparantly contridicting. In the KJV and most other translation of the scriptuer (which were translated fron the KJV) this dose seem to be the way it is. If you take these scriptures back to the original which is Hebrew these contridictions are not there.
For your second site We are told do not murder. That is any one for any reason. This is not the way of the Creator but It is the way of this world. This world is run by satan and the whole world is deceived (Rev 12:9)
I have read what you asked so that you would listen so I ask you to read. Go to wikipedia.com Look up House of Yahweh or Yisrayl Hawkins I have given thiese referances so many times on this page that I wonder if anyone has bothered to look at them even out of curiosity. You can also visit yahweh.com and see the translation of the scriptures there called The Book of Yahweh The Holy Scriptures, It is in English and reseached back to the Hebrew. Just look at it you will be amazed at what you see. There is truth you just have to be willing to do some research to find it.

Answer 6

Why would I or anyone have to worry about what you accept in a theological arguement/discussion? Who are you that I have to prove anything to?

You see here is the basic problem with your assertations. For one you take what others have written and pass them off as fact using them in your arguements against Christianity. You believe that you have so many questions here that a Christian cannot possibly answer thinking you have placed your piece in perfect position for a checkmate, when in reality every objection you have taken that other people have claimed have all been answered so there is no reason to reinvent the wheel and have to regergitate them all back to you here....BTW there isn't enough room to address them all and even if they were addressed would you seriously read them? If you are honestly lookin for the answer then I would suggest you look to a Christian apologetics website.

I would offer this bit of warning/advice? If you do not believe in God then how will you ever believe in the things of God?

I noticed also in your statements that one must answer you by using precise arguments with facts and logic, not opinions or some other passage in the bible. By this statement you are assertaining that "Christians can't use "circular reasoning" by trying to prove the Bible by quoting from the Bible!"

But, the "circular reasoning" argument is absurd. That's like saying you can't prove that the President lives in the White House by looking into the White House. It is looking into the White House that will provide the necessary proof. The fulfilled prophecies, the amazing consistency, and the many scientific statements of the Bible prove it to be the Word of God. They provide evidence that it is supernatural in origin. See also Psalm 119:105 footnote.

Do not think that you can read a couple verses form the bible, take them out of context and try to use them against Christians then tell Christians to explain it without using the bible. This is ridiculous and absurd and only "attempts" to back the Christian in a corner, and I use the word attempt lightly.

Why should I accept anything you say when you lack the capacity or the knowledge to truely understand the bible. Based on your statements it is apparent that even if you have read the bible you have not understood that which you have read, but instead have believed the rantings of others. To truely understand all the truths contained within the bible it would take more than a lifetime and the person would need to be a master of many academic disciplines (i.e. language, archeology, geology, physics, astronomy, etc.)

As for your attempt at posting a website that blames Christians for attrocities, it is laughable at best. Your concept of history is nothing more than that which you have read elsewhere. You obviously have no concept of what it means to be a Christian when you can't diferentiate one from someone who simply calls themselves a Christian. Many things in the history of our world have been done in the name of not only Christianity, but religion in general or the lack thereof. Its not because of the religions themselves or the lack of religons, but because of the nature of man. Doing something in the name of Christianity makes you no more a Christian than looking under the hood of your car makes you a mechanic.

In your attemot you have not belittled the Christian to the point where they have no basis for their arguemet, but in essence have shown foolishness in your own wisdom.

Answer 7

Many of the dietary laws in the old testament were in place for reasons of maintaining health. About the only way to "save" meat was to salt it, but not all meat could be preserved by salt. Additionally, lobsters are bottom feeders, so for the Jews, it was an unclean animal; its meat was to be avoided because it ate the dead remains of other animals.

Today, we have things like refrigerators to preserve and/or freeze meat.
And since the dietary laws of Leviticus were part of the Levitical Law for the Jews, it was not meant to be followed by Gentiles.
(There was a huge debate in Jerusalem about that in the church in the first century.)
From the debate and its aftermath, Peter ministered to the Jews in Jerusalem, and Paul took the Gospel to the (unclean) Gentiles.

Christians are Gentiles, and therefore, logically, not required to adhere to the Levitical Laws concerning diet.

Behavioral issues, however, involve how man treats his fellow man. Leviticus 18's proclaimation of "abomination" is congruant with Jesus' teachings on the Greatest Commandment.

"Abomination" is a word ascribed to any breech of the Ten Commandments.

Answer 8

That's like comparing airplains to oranges. As for scales are you saying that scales on a shrimp are shells. Because you take the shells off you do not eat them do you. They are shaped like scales. As for lobsters it is the same, you don't eat the shells do you. You eat the meat inside. There are many things in the ocean that swim in the ocean and have scales and fins and we don't eat them because they don't taste good.
As for your other argument. America will be judged for allowing these practices. Also for the killing of the children whom are murdered before they have a chance to live on this planet that the good lord has created. Just remeber it also says that in the end days, bad will be good , good will be bad. There will be scoughers saying. Where is this God. since the beginning even the fathers have said he is coming. And where is he. I can't see your God, so therefore he does not exist. I ask you this?

How many athiest die everyday in America. Very few because men become cowards when they struggle for their last breath, they accept Christ in there last moments. I've seen it at the hospital I work at. We also weigh them just before they die and in that twinkling moment and that last moment 21 grams is mysteriously missing from the weight. Be careful because no man knows the hour of his death. You have been weighed and measured and been found wanting. From this moment on will be reduced to nothing and unassembled. Until you surrender, and you will ask for foregivness. Mark this day.

Answer 9

Because homosexuality as a sin is reaffirmed in the New Testament while abstaining from shrimp is not. That is why it is called a "new" covenant...hence the "new" testament.

And as a pagan let me say: Get over this christians persecuting us ****, OK? We murdered lots of them before the Edict of Milan so quite being an idiot and study your history...not just the parts that allow you to shout "VICTIM" everytime something doesn't go your way.

Answer 10

You ARE really asking for too much. To answer your questions will require a book of about 700 pages.

And yes, as a Christian, I do not eat shrimp or pork or snakes.

Look, if you want to practice homosexuality, go right ahead. I wouldn't stop you ( unless it is with me that you want to do that). You don't have to condemn the Bible and its supporters just because they do not sanction your lifestyle.

And yes, many Christians are hypocritical.

Finally, you need to learn something about hermeneutics.