Atheists vs theists - who is the more "moral" and who can prove it.?

Question

Personally, I think you are all immorral. Some of you require a defense mechamism cause you've been abused with a lie about fear and you think that a certain belief will make you righteous in the eyes of a sky wizard.

Not to me, you are all equally worthless to me.

I'm worthless to. I have wronged everyone I've ever known and loved.

So, can we stop with this monkey business of who is moral atheist or theist, and just do what some of the greatest masters in human history have taught us?

1. Love
2. Forgive


What sickens me most about yahoo answers lately is reading things that imply because people are righteous before their sky wizard because they believe in the dead sky wizard coming back to life, that they are righteous to each other in their cult, but everyone who isn't in the cult is unrighteous.

All of us equally worthless and unrighteous to each other equally deserving love and forgiveness.

Will you love me. Will you forgive me? Not the sky pixie, you.

Answer 1

I am agnostic as you may know.

I will love you and forgive you. That is what matters, after all. Compassion for your fellow man. In the long run, that's what matters. Unforgiveness only leads to resentment and resentment only leads to hate. Why would it matter of this sky wizzard believes that you are righteous if you never treated your fellow man with respect, tolerane, love, and forgiveness? I would hope their 'God' would prefer that people show compassion for all of 'his creation' instead of disrespecting everything and everyone.

Answer 2

First of all, I am Christian.

Now do you want to me to love you, and do you want me to forgive you? I'm certainly willing, but do you want it? That is the question I believe.

I like to think of it that the majority of people on here are actually concerned for everyone else and do just want them to see the light in terms of religion, whether that be converting to Christianity, atheism, Islam... whatever, that is what I like to think, that people are looking out for each other.

There are of course some that are completely thought provoking etc and just rude and I that we can all learn to just ignore them.

You are correct that no matter how worthless or unrighteous who are all equally deserving in love and forgiveness, but that is purely idealistic view I think, and is not really possible. To take an extreme example, who are you more likely to love, Mother Teresa, or Hitler. You see where I am coming from?

However, I think that there is more to your question than that. You speak of a sky wizard, I trust you mean God. I accept that you do not believe in God, but I do not believe in a sky wizard, and am unsure as to what point you are trying to prove by using that termonology. Same applies to cult meaning religion I assume.

Ok so I am not in your cult or religion or whatever you would like to call it. But are you willing to love me, to forgive me? I don't believe that I have to be forgiven for anything, least of all by me, I ask God for forgiveness, which leads me on to ask why you think you need to be forgiven? Or perhaps because"I have wronged everyone i've ever known and loved"

In addition, do you think you are being completely righteous towards me and those of my religion, I'm not completely sure about that. The fact is that Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead, and our saviour has taught us to spread the word. That is the reason why christians want to help educate people in Christianity, because they love and they care for you. They are only doing what they think is totally right for you.

Do you understand what I have spoken about? I will love you and forgive you. I hope this is what you want to hear. If you want to find out more or disagree with any point I made, just send me a message. I am not saying my religion is correct, although I do believe it is, I can't say yours is not, as you havn't told me what it is, I have just tried to explain why people do certain things. Hope this helps!

Answer 3

Atheists as random quirks of nature have no claim to morality. Pragmatism, yes. Ethics, yes. Societies norms, yes. Being an inherently nice person, maybe, for an inherently nice person who does not stand up to oppression and violence, is useless.

Theists believing they are created beings, and created for a reason have the philosophical high ground. Not saying they might make a better person in many cases. But, they can justify an absolute moral code. Random quirks of nature cannot.

Beware, you implied 2 different things. A philosophical question and a personality question. Philosophically, theists have the high ground. In life, it is a matter of who you are, your personality, that makes you good or bad.

Answer 4

Everyone betrays their morals at some point in their lives. The honest ones will admit it, others will pretend they never did it and try to keep up the facade. No one person from any particular belief system is any more or less moral than another.

Yes I would love and forgive you as I hope you would for me as I neither am perfect.

Answer 5

I believe you confuse morals with ethics. Neither atheists or theist have a corner on morality or ethics.

Morals are a very personal thing between you and whatever you happen to believe in. Ethics are the social condition, how you treat others. If indeed your ethics are lacking as you indicate, then the place to start improving is in yourself.

Most people have at one time or another wronged another.. this is not a breach in morals, it is a breach of ethics and quite frankly bad manners.

Having good manners is making eveyrone around you as comfortable as possible. I wish you luck and success in your quest for your improving your ethics and manners, your morals are your own demon to tame.

Answer 6

In response to your initial question... Neither. It's a ridiculous debate to have, and usually ends up being fought using reductio ad Hitlerum and ad hominem arguments. A theist will use Hitler (as just mentioned), the Romans, MTV, communism, whatever as an argument. An atheist will use the inquisition, the Vatican's indifference to the Holocaust, eye for an eye, Pat Robertson, "God told me to invade Iraq", whatever...

The fact of the matter is you get good and evil atheists, and you get good and evil theists... Just remember that the large majority of both groups are nice folks...

Answer 7

I personally care not one whit whether someone believes or not. I do, but that is my business. I happen to believe that I will be called to account for whether or not I did enough to bring others to faith, but as for whether or not I believe - that is the foundation of my life. I can explain it, it is rational and I can revolve my world around it. It helps me sleep at night and gives me comfort in situations where there would otherwise be no source of comfort. But does it dictate how I treat others - I don't know, I try to live by the golden rule, and try not get too carried about others who don't care to live by that guiding principle.

I can love everyone and forgive everything, and whether or not I believe in the "sky wizard" should have little to do with that. When it comes to belief or unbelief, or dealing with those you deem "righteous" or "unrighteous" - I take the position of being able to love everyone, even those with whom I disagree, but I reserve the right to disagree with their actions, and respect their right to disagree with me and my actions.

I am not the ultimate judge of right and wrong, and no one should feel that they are. We do need, as a society to have some sort of agreement about what is right and what is wrong, or we would cease to exist as a society. It is not my job to enforce these things, or to pass judgment on those who may or may not keep these moral tenets. We have authorities who need to do that in our place.

I know that I come far short of meeting the expectations that are placed on all of us, but I try to keep getting better and do the best that I can. Besides love and forgiveness of others, I try to employ those things with myself as well, knowing that when our time on this planet is over, all that will remain is our legacy, and our reputation, and other memories of us. To a certain extent, we can only control so much of all three of those elements, and the rest is left to others. I can't get too worked up over what I cannot control.

I love you man, and please forgive me for being too mushy...

Answer 8

Of course, you big silly monkeyman. I've had practice being the one who needs forgiveness and is denied. I give it freely, not that there's anything I need to forgive you for.

Answer 9

Me? Yes and yes (to the last 2 questions). Life's just too short to spend it hating and holding grudges =)
So what is it you think you need to be forgiven for?

Answer 10

Personally I don't see this as a contest. You are right we are about equal. Let's learn to live and let live.
Peace Be With You,
Debra